Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc36.txt

Text File | 1993-04-26 | 184KB | 4,785 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XXXVI
Apr. 7 '93 - Apr. 23 '93

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Subject:      earth image (some more on it)
Date:         7 Apr 93 17:13:15 CST6CDT
From: "Mike Jiang"  <[e-mail]>

Hi again,
    When I said realistic in the privious post I ment the color of
the continents and oceans as seen from space.

Mike Jiang

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum."    | email==> [e-mail]  |
| "I think that I think,              | or    [e-mail]  |
|  therefore I think that I am."      |                              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject:      earth image
Date:         7 Apr 93 17:06:18 CST6CDT
From: "Mike Jiang"  <[e-mail]>

Hi,
    does anyone know where I can find a REALISTIC and detailed image
of the earth.  It's for an image map.  One of those rectangular ones
with all the continents.  I think their called mercator(sp?)
projections.


Thanks.



Mike Jiang
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum."    | email==> [e-mail]  |
| "I think that I think,              | or    [e-mail]  |
|  therefore I think that I am."      |                              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: DXF conversion info
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 18:51:25 CST
From: Jeff Niebergall <[e-mail]>

I thought with all the bantering about Interchange and Pixel 3D and
the ability of them to convert DXF files I'd pass this on.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Three Dimensional Conversion Utility

      Copyright (c) 1993, by MicroMouse Productions, All Rights Reserved
                         Program by Wayne Hogue

                         Prerelease Information
                       Features Subject to Change

This program is commercial and is neither public domain nor shareware.


Preliminary Release Date:

   . Second Quarter of 1993.


Primary Usage:

   . Conversion of AutoCAD DXF files to 3D object formats.


Secondary Usage:

   . Convert a three dimensional object from one file format to another
     file format.


Requirements:

   . Workbench 2.04 or greater required.
   . Hard-drive installable.
   . Not copy protected.
   . Accelerator compatible.
   . Minimum Memory: 4 MB of RAM.
   . Recommended system: 8 MB or more of RAM, 68030 accelerator, math
     coprocessor and hard-drive.


3D Object Formats Read:

   . AutoCAD DXF
   . Imagine
   . LightWave
   . VideoScape
   . Sculpt 3D


3D Object Formats Written:

   . Imagine
   . LightWave
   . VideoScape
   . Sculpt 3D
   . release version may include AutoCAD DXF


Other 3D Formats:

   . Formats such as Real3D and Aladdin 4D will be supported in the future
     when information on their object format is available.


AREXX Support:

   . AREXX will not be supported in the first version but is planned for
     future releases.


AutoCAD DXF File Conversion (Read Only):

   . Virtually unlimited support for DXF files.
   . Tested with AutoCAD Version 10 and 11.
   . Other CAD programs that export DXF files can be used.
   . No restrictions placed on the technician producing the AutoCAD
     drawing.

   . Save AutoCAD drawing as an ASCII DXF file and not a Binary DXF file.
   . DXF file should be saved with some decimal places of accuracy.
     6 places is recommended.
   . Save the entire drawing as a DXF file including sections: HEADER,
     TABLES, BLOCKS and ENTITIES.

   . Size of DXF file supported is dependent on amount of RAM available.
     A 2 MB DXF file will require approximately 8 MB of RAM for the
     decoding.

   . LAYERS: unlimited number of layers are supported. One object is
             saved per layer. Color of the object will be the color of the
             layer. Any entity defined with a color different from the
             layer color will have that different color.

             Select and deselect layers to be written to the 3D object
             file.

    . BLOCKS: Unlimited number of blocks are supported. Blocks can be
              inserted in blocks. When the decoded drawing is written any
              block can be saved as part of a layer or as a seperate object.
              Example: When designing an aircraft create ailerons, rudder
                       and flaps as blocks and save the 3D object with
                       these blocks as seperate objects.

    . EXPLODING DRAWINGS:
         Drawings do NOT have to be exploded. Exploding drawings creates
         more primitive entities and increases the amount of RAM required
         to decode the file.

    . ENTITIES NOT SUPPORTED:
        . Externally referenced data.
        . TEXT
        . ATTDEF - used with TEXT.
        . ATTRIB - used with TEXT.
        . DIMENSION
        . SHAPE  - it is more versatile and easier to use Blocks.

    . ENTITIES SUPPORTED:
        . LINE
        . CIRCLE
        . ARC - number of points used can be varied for different arc sizes.
        . TRACE
        . SOLID
        . BLOCK
        . ENDBLK
        . INSERT - insertion point, scale factor, rotation angle, column
                   and row spacing and counts are supported.
        . POLYLINE - all features supported.
            . simple polyline
            . polylines with different starting and ending widths for each
              segment of the polyline.
            . polylines that have been closed in any direction.
            . polylines that have been curve-fitted or spline-fitted.
            . polylines with bulges.
            . 3D POLYGON MESH - can be closed in any direction.
            . 3D POLYGON FACE - recommended that faces be made as triangles.
        . VERTEX - used with POLYLINE
        . SEQEND
        . 3DLINE
        . 3DFACE
        . Any entity that can be extruded can be extruded in any direction.
        . Rotations can be in any direction.
        . Any entity defined with color will over-ride the color of the
          layer it is on.
        . Entity color is as defined in the AutoCAD manual.
        . Data can be scaled when read.


Imagine Conversion (Read and Write):

  . Object Heirarchies are supported for both read and write.
  . Color, Reflection, Specularity, Filter, Dithering, Hardness,
    Roughness, Shininess, Quickdraw, Phong Shading, Genlock and Index
    of Refraction can be saved in a Preferences file for each DXF Layer
    Name and then used to preset everything before saving the next
    object file.
  . Save both 2D and 3D data from DXF file.
  . Bump maps, etc. are not currently supported.
  . Data can be scaled when read or written.


LightWave Conversion (Read and Write):

  . Each file is read and written as one file.
  . Surface color, specularity, index of refraction are read when defined
    in the LightWave file.
  . Bump maps, etc. are not supported.
  . As done in Imagine preset color, specularity, index of refraction.
  . Data can be scaled when read or written.


VideoScape Conversion (Read and Write):

  . Read and write this format as one object per file.
  . Data can be scaled when read or written.


Sculpt 3D Conversion (Read and Write):

  . Read and write this format as one object per file. Color information
    is transferred.
  . Data can be scaled when read or written.


Trademarks:

  . All products mentioned are trademarks of their respective owners.


--


##

Subject: Re: DXF conversion/ honest, blunt reviews
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 21:48:45 EST
From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>

> >
> >   Now let's stop this inane one-sided flame war you're conducting. It
> > is very unprofessional of you and presents a very negative image to
> > your company.  I for one will not go out and buy your product just
> > because of that first flame you posted. I was going to respond to it
> > but stopped myself figuring it would be the last.  I am dissapointed
> > in seeing a tolerance for such an unprofessional post in the Imagine
> > Mailing List.  I hope it will be the last.
>
> If you think it's unprofessional to point out problems with another product,
> then that's up to you.  I think it's better for people to be aware of the
> problems.   For all the flames that Black Belt Systems and ASDG have tossed
> at each other, both sides have benefited by having stronger products.

As we all know magazine reviews are heavily biased based on the size
of the ad that the company being reviewed paid for. If I can't buy a
piece of software, try it out, and hav the option to return it fora
refund, I want to be well informed of it's strengths and weaknesses
ahead of time. constructive criticism is not _flaming_  If the person
two paragraphs above chooses not to purchase a product due to a
competitors criticisms here, that's his problem. Honest, factually based
assesments of software should not only be tolerated on IML but
encouraged.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                    | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke
steve lombardi      | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot
[e-mail] | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be
                    | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN


##

Subject: 3D-Goggles
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 21:01:12 -0600
From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES <[e-mail]>

Errors-to: /dev/null

Hi, I have a little problem:  I'm trying to mess around with 3-D stuff and
I'd like to find a set of "goggles" with CRTs (or LCD screens) built in.
Anyone have any suggestions?  I'm getting desperate.

I heard reviews of some sort of glasses that let you watch TV while walking,
maybe I could use those or something...

Thanx,
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: DXF conversion/ honest, blunt reviews
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 23:30:09 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)

> As we all know magazine reviews are heavily biased based on the size
> of the ad that the company being reviewed paid for. If I can't buy a

Hmmm...well, I for one don't think that's true...at least not on the
magazine's part.  I've never been asked to compromise a review by a magazine
or a company for any reason.  I've never had a review changed by a
magazine I've written for (AmigaWorld and Amazing Computing) either, even
if it was a negative review.

Individual reviewers have biases, though, and you can run into trouble
if you get a reviewer can't give a balanced view of the good and bad
parts of a review subject.  That happens everywhere though.  (Even happened
with DS9 and B5 reviews in TV Guide).

Bottom line, if a reviewer says nice things about everything, or ignores
flaws, then it's time to quit reading those reviews.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.  Back to our regularly scheduled IML
topics.  :-)


##

Subject: Re:  earth image
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 21:15:58 -0600
From: STEELE SHAWN CHARLES <[e-mail]>

Me too... but does anyone have a 3D data set of the Earth?  (Other planets
would be neat too.)  I created a simple planet object that looks good at
a distance and is fairly quick to render, but a real planet would help.


##

Subject: Re: 3D-Goggles
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 01:58:39 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

> Hi, I have a little problem:  I'm trying to mess around with 3-D stuff and
> I'd like to find a set of "goggles" with CRTs (or LCD screens) built in.
> Anyone have any suggestions?  I'm getting desperate.

> I heard reviews of some sort of glasses that let you watch TV while walking,
> maybe I could use those or something...

>    Thanx,
>    [e-mail]

--------------------------------------------------------
Nope never heard of them... But there is those Xspecs 3D glasses
selling for about 100 dollars... I can tell you want to build a VR
system... Oh well.. everyone does..


##

Subject: Re: earth image
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 01:52:54 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    Hi,
        does anyone know where I can find a REALISTIC and detailed image
    of the earth.  It's for an image map.  One of those rectangular ones
    with all the continents.  I think their called mercator(sp?)
    projections.

    Thanks.
    Mike Jiang
----------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm... Have you tried those FTP places with NASA stuff???
They usually have weather maps from a satelite.. If you can't
find anything, I might check through my CD-ROm that I got through Walnut Creek
(the one with the 4000 gifs).

If worse comes to worse, I could find a copy of national geographic
with one of those maps and scan it in... This is something I could get
in to becuase I might want one for my fly-through of our school
campus.. I imagine something like what you see just before
David Letterman's Late Night show... ;-)

Good luck...


##

Subject: Interchange+ & Pixel 3D
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 0:21:40 EDT
From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)

I second the post by Stephen Pietrowicz and his statement that pointing out
problems in another product (albeit from another product's competitor) is not
fueling a 'flame war'; but goes toward informing users of possible problems
when attempting usage of said product.  So the post happened to be from the
maker of, IMHO, the superior product, Interchange+ :{)

I have used both Pixel and ICP to convert objects between formats, and ICP+
wind hands down for it's attention to detail when converting objects with
regard to hierarchal (sp?) structure, surface attributes, etc., etc.  And ease
of use, no contest either.  Each has its added features such as Pixel's
autotrace abilities and ICP+'s font objects.  If ICP+ had the autotracing I
would not have even bought the original Pixel 3D (of which my experience is
limited too).

Maybe John has the volume up a little loud or the tone set a little harsh but
he is performing the service of providing information on what his product does
well.  This should help the original question poster save time and effort, if
not dollars to boot.  I'd like to see this out of other software makers, any
other software makers, as I detect a distinct absence of those who make the
effort to communicate with us, the users.

Sorry to have jumped up on the ol' soapbox here, but I felt it was very wrong
to have accused the only vendor of quality Amiga-ware that bothers to
communicate with us of flaming another product.  I think I know a flame when I
see one and I haven't so... I'm babbling now and I'm off the box.

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


##

Subject: Re:  earth image
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 02:09:38 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    Me too...but does anyone have a 3D data set of the Earth? (Other planets
    would be neat too.)  I created a simple planet object that looks good at
    a distance and is fairly quick to render, but a real planet would help.

--------------------------------------------------------
Ya... my friend Pat called up NASA and asked for all the
data from satelites for 3D altitude maps of the earth...
They sent him (no kidding this is true) two reels (tape that
is, 20 inch reels) full of data. It freaked him out, but
unfortunately there isn't any place (he have found one though)
to read the reels... Still we would probably have to write
the software to process the data...

PS - by any chance do you know the Steve Webb, Jeff or Joe Bowden??
Just asking... it may be a small world...


##

Subject: Re: DXF conversion
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 4:01:20 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Rev Lebaredian)

>
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> If you think it's unprofessional to point out problems with another product,
> then that's up to you.  I think it's better for people to be aware of the
> problems.   For all the flames that Black Belt Systems and ASDG have tossed
> at each other, both sides have benefited by having stronger products.
>

  I have absolutely no problem with arguing the differences between
software packages by the makers of them, but John Foust was adding
more to it than just objective facts.  When somebody starts accusing
all owners of his competitor's product of being software pirates,
there is clearly something wrong.  He set the tone for this whole
discussion within the first couple sentances of his first post
claiming that a person who suggested Pixel 3D to someone else, did
so only to spite him.  This is a very unprofessional attitude and
is lacking on social grace.  I will repeate again, I see no problem
in conducting objective arguments on the superiority of one's product.
What I do oppose is personal attacks against user's of your competitor's
products.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                    "My moral standing is lying down."
                                                    [e-mail]


##

Subject: Amiga vendors missed
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 0:33:29 EDT
From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)

Before the replies start rolling my way I'd like to apologize to Steve Worley
for not throwing his name into my previous post re: Interchange+ & Pixel 3D.
Steve is the only other maker of quality Amiga-ware, that comes to mind, and
bothers to make the effort to communicate with his users.

I know some of the other companies maintain forums on the big buck nets, but
that is a story to itself!  Have you ever noticed how many of those forums are
supported solely by the users?  Gotta admit that the Impulse forum on CI$ was
one of them until Rick got things going again.  I can't say how many are on
Portal as I don't subscribe because of their weird billing policies.  However
supporting users via the Usenet takes a little extra effort on the vendors part
and doesn't cost the users a dime! (usually!)  So what I am really trying to
say to those who do show up is that it is greatly appreciated.

And if I have missed other vendors due to my lack of paying attention, sorry in
advance, and thanks for being here.

***really off the box this time***
  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


##

Subject: class act
Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 93 13:26 EDT
From: "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>

I would like to publicly thank steve worley for his extremely quick responce
to a note which I sent him less than a week ago. With all the apex newsletter
talk , I wrote him and complained about never getting one. four days later,
there it was in my mailbox. Thanks a lot Steve, and keep up the good work.
(Sorry to you overseas users.)

                                                    RG


##

Subject: Re: New version of Cycleman: Humanoid
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 13:56:52 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Rich Nollman)

How/where do I get a copy of the april/may issue of New Teks Video Toaster?

Rich Nollman


##

Subject: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: 05 Apr 1993 20:43:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Ryan K. Brooks" <[e-mail]>

After all this Pixel 3d vs Interchange discussion, it may be important to
note that p3d builds its screen in a very OS-UNfriendly way, causing great
problems on promoted screens (read: it's screwed up on the 4000).  I can't
speak for Interchange, perhaps someone can enlighten us to AGA compatibility.

Ryan Brooks


##

Subject:  earth image
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 10:45:41 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

I found a color and b&w projection of the earth based on sattelite height
data taken at 1/2 degree increments. I forget the name of the individual
who did the conversion from height to iff but it is included in the archive.

The archive name is earth.lha and is on the aminet sites in the pix/misc
directory.

I did a quick earth using the b&w as an altitude map and the color as a brush
and it looked very nice.

    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: Humanoids From The Deep
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 15:34:11 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)

[e-mail] (Rich Nollman) agonizes:

>How/where do I get a copy of the april/may issue of New Teks Video Toaster?


Rich, I just looked inside the cover and they list this:
1-800-322-AVID for subscriptions.

I would guess that you can get ahold of back issues and
such from there. Even though it's the current issue, I'd
guess if you order it from there, that they'd charge you
as a back issue. Perhaps it would be more useful if they
could steer you toward a local sales outlet to you.
OR...naturally... you could subscribe there.

Or another idea would be to touch base with one or more of the
mail order outfits like Safe Harbor, Creative, or one of those
dudes. I have a feeling that most of them carry some
Amiga mags. Another option would be to call Alpha Video at
[phone] and ask if they carry it. They are pretty much
a Toaster related shop and I would assume they would have copies
available for sale.

Enjoy.


Dave Wickard  [phone]  "We can't understand him. He's too far
[e-mail]       above us. We're like ropes on the
[e-mail]      Goodyear blimp." -Bill Murray in
                               "What About Bob?"


##

Subject: ICP, Pixel, DXF, etc.
Date: 08 Apr 93 17:19:36 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>

To: >internet: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (William V. Swartz) writes:
> Maybe John has the volume up a little loud or the tone set a little
> harsh but he is performing the service of providing information on
> what his product does well.  This should help the original question

I didn't intend to sound brash, I intended to refute statements made
about the abilities of InterChange Plus.  The Internet has seen much
more rude and obnoxious postings than mine.  Is there a rule that
postings can say only nice, pleasant things about people and
products?  What is this, a struggling Amiga magazine?  :-)

Hyper-sensitive people should get back into their bubble.  So far,
I've received far more positive comments than negative, both in
e-mail and on the phone.

As for the conversion system from MicroMouse Productions, I look
forward to seeing it when it ships.  As I'd say about any product,
(even my own) if you're worried about parting with your cash then you
should delay your purchase until it's field-tested by real customers.

When it ships, we can compare it to the then-shipping version of the
InterChange DXF Converter.  Competition being what is is, this means
our next version of the DXF Converter will need to incorporate many
of the features they listed.  This is easy to do, because most of
these improvements have been in development for some time, plus other
features.  We certainly know how we'd like to enhance our products.

And [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) writes:
> I miss the Wavefront converter in Interchange but with the Toaster I
> can just load in Wavefront objects because a converter is built in as
> is a DXF converter.  No attributes are converted with the built in
> converters for Lightwave however.

Both the Wavefront and DXF Converters in the Toaster do convert any
attributes in the file...  what sort of problems did you have?  Did
you read Appendix 12 in the Toaster manual?

If you've got a Toaster, then you already own half of our
top-of-the-line (yes, most expensive) converters.  NewTek licensed
our translators for Wavefront, AutoCAD DXF, 3D Studio, Swivel 3D and
Sculpt.  We also developed the Macintosh PICT loader/savers in the
Toaster, and we licensed this code to ASDG for the PICT support in
the latest Art Dept. Pro conversion pack.

This conversion system is called TIO.  Like InterChange Plus, TIO is
an extensible system, meaning you can drop in more Converters and
they all work automatically.  We sell a add-on TIO Imagine Converter
that lets LightWave import Imagine objects directly.

TIO is much more automatic than ICP - converters start automatically,
there are less options, etc.  At this time, the TIO system only
contains loaders, not savers, meaning you can get Wavefront data into
LightWave, but you can't save Wavefront objects.  (NewTek wanted it
this way.)

The corresponding add-on Converters for InterChange Plus are actually
a revision beyond what's currently shipping in the Toaster, so they
have a few more features.  Just this week, we shipped the new
Autodesk 3D Studio Converter.

[e-mail] (Rev Lebaredian) writes:
> more to it than just objective facts.  When somebody starts accusing
> all owners of his competitor's product of being software pirates,
> there is clearly something wrong.  He set the tone for this whole

Hello?  Real world, this is Rev; Rev, this is the real world.  I
didn't accuse anyone of being a pirate.  As for objective facts, did
I say something incorrect?  If so, please correct me.


##

Subject: Earth Mercator maps.
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 18:58:55 EDT
From: scott a king <[e-mail]>

> Subject:  earth image
>
>
> I found a color and b&w projection of the earth based on sattelite height
> data taken at 1/2 degree increments. I forget the name of the individual
> who did the conversion from height to iff but it is included in the archive.
I have a color mercator map of the earth that has a really good shot when there
weren't very many clouds around.  If someone wants me to mail it to them and
then they can upload it just say so.  I currently have it in ppm and gif format.
--
Scott
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: 08 Apr 93 19:58:57 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>

To: >internet: [e-mail]

"Ryan K. Brooks" <[e-mail]> writes:
> After all this Pixel 3d vs Interchange discussion, it may be important
> to note that p3d builds its screen in a very OS-UNfriendly way,
> causing great problems on promoted screens (read: it's screwed up on
> the 4000).  I can't speak for Interchange, perhaps someone can
> enlighten us to AGA compatibility.

InterChange is one of those late-great programs that opens on the
Workbench.  It's a remnant from the days when Commodore said that
Intuition and Workbench was the way to go.  I know it's much more
fashionable to have your own HAM screen with gadgets that look like
brushed aluminum stero knobs, but we've got a very boring 4-color
window.  So we work fine on the A4000 and 3.x.

I was always curious about Pixel's interface; I could tell that some
of the gadgets were drawing in strange orders.  It made me wonder if
they were "real" Intuition gadgets.


##

Subject: Fade to Black problem
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 0:04:28 EST
From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>

I have two light sources in a scene that I want to fade to black over
the course of 30 frames. I'm morphing the full value (255) lights to
0,0,0 valued lights. by frame 30 I would expect COMPLETE darkness,
yet there is still a fair amount of unwanted light around.

My globals have no ambiant light. No objects in the scene emit
light other than the two suns. I checked the staging file
thoroughly with ISL for hidden light sources and found none.
any clues?? thanks.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                    | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke
steve lombardi      | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot
[e-mail] | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be
                    | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN


##

Subject: Re: 3D-Goggles
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 11:53:58 EDT
From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)

>
> Errors-to: /dev/null
>
> Hi, I have a little problem:  I'm trying to mess around with 3-D stuff and
> I'd like to find a set of "goggles" with CRTs (or LCD screens) built in.
> Anyone have any suggestions?  I'm getting desperate.
>
> I heard reviews of some sort of glasses that let you watch TV while walking,
> maybe I could use those or something...
>
> Thanx,
> [e-mail]
>
The X-Specs 3D glasses by Haitex should still be available.  I have seen mail
order prices around $100 but you may be able to find a used pair if that is too
steep.  These are LCD shuttered glasses that allow each eye to see a different
image by syncing with the Amiga display and using one field per eye image.
There is also an adaptor available to hook these up to you vcr to sync with
taped imagery.

The walk around tv you mentioned is a small lcd tv screen attached to a pair of
glasses and a belt pack.  As far as I know this uses only one screen so I don't
think that is what you are looking for.

Latest info I have shows :
Haitex Resources
PO Box 20609
Charleston, SC 29413-0609
[phone]
[phone] BBS
[phone] FAX

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


##

Subject: Re: Portal's weird billing
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 0:47:01 EDT
From: [e-mail] (William V. Swartz)

>
> In your posting to the IML today you referred to Portal's
> "weird billing policies."
>
> Pleaes explain what is weird about a $19.95/month flat usage fee
> and no hourly charge if dialed direct or via internet (telnet)
> and $2.50/hour via sprintnet/tymnet?
>
> Thousands of Portal users seem to be able to deal with these
> "weird" policies.
>
> Or is it easier to comprehend "you pay us $18.00 an hour for
> 9600 baud access" ala CI$ ?
>
> Harv
>
  There you go, 19.95/mo dialed direct.  Direct to where? California?
OAAdd the hourly AT&T rate from Ohio and woah mama!  Ok, use telenet/sprintnet
which I am sure is available in my area, and this gets billed to my Portal
account so I don't have a separate bill but do have to track it.  Now the
wierdness as I call it comes in the form of paying Portal before dialing, then
the clock ticks down my pre-paid amounts.  What happens when I run out of clock
before I can get another check off to Portal?  What happens if I run out smack
in the middle of a download?  That is too much bull to put up with.  I use
GEnie and CIS because they have great services aside from Amiga areas and have
the ease of check-free billing.  I pay what I use, plus my monthly fees, and
most months both are way below 19.95 + 2.50/hr!

I am glad there are thousands of Portal users coping with this.  Perhaps they
even have credit card billing as an option by now, but I don't want to pay the
extra charges there as that is not what my cards are for.  If Portal got with
it and offered check-free I might again consider adding their service but
without it forget it.  Besides, what can Portal really offer me that I don't
already have?  And do you have a vested interest in Portal?  I know you sigop
the Amiga Zone, but aside from that, what really makes Portal so great?

  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)


##

Subject: Re: DXF conversion
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 93 11:45:28 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Rev Lebaredian) writes:
> but John Foust was adding
> more to it than just objective facts.  When somebody starts accusing
> all owners of his competitor's product of being software pirates,
> there is clearly something wrong.

What??? I hope you are not refering to John's assertion that some people
who reviewed PixelPro more favorably had free copies. Because that reference
has nothing to do with piracy. Scott Thede selectively gives out free copies
of his software to some people (as do many vendors). In fact at the '92
NewTek X-mas party (pre-party actually), Scott handed both John and myself
copies of Pixel Pro.

[e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) writes:
> I have both packages.  I do my conversions with InterChange Plus and
> I do my bitmap conversions with Pixel 3D Professional.

Yeah, what he said. I also own both and use ICP almost exclusively for object
conversion. Pixel Pro is a great auto tracer and the new load font and type
capability is great, but there are several reasons I use ICP for conversion.
1) LighWave scene support: reads and writes LW scenes as though they were an
   object hierarchy.
2) Properly handles Imagine hierarchy.
3) Most complete surface attribute translation.
4) Simple multi-object conversion.
5) Surface file support.
6) More stable and reliable operation.

Multi-object conversion is nice because I will frequently have over 20 objects
that need to be converted from one format to another. This is trivial with ICP
but tedious in PixPro. The surface file support is rather unique. I might have
a complex object (or scene for that matter) that has say 50 or more surfaces,
and a bunch of them may need to be altered slightly. I can load that scene
or object into ICP, write out a surface file, quickly edit it in a text editor,
and then reapply it back to that scene/object. This is much easier than making
all the individual changes within the 3D software, especially when the number
of surfaces changing is very large. I should note however that this surfaces
file does not currently support textures.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: earth image
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 07:40:38 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)

I found a file called 'earth_topo_720x360.Z' somewhere on the net.
I thought it was ncgia.ucsb.edu, but I logged on yesterday and there's
nothing like that there now.  Nor does Archie know about it.

BUT - I have the file and have converted it to VistaPro format and
have been playing with it there.  The raw file format is a 720x360
array of floating point elevations - including the ocean depths.
The file is about 1MB or 750K in .lha archive format.

If this is high enough resolution then e-mail me and, depending on
demand, I'll either upload it to AmiNet or uuencode it for those
interested.  If there's interest in the VistaPro format, please let
me know, also.  Or I could use VistaPro to save the elevation map
as a IFF file and distribute that.  The possibilities are endless...

    Mike

--

Mike Bandy      [e-mail]
Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Laboratory


##

Subject: Re: Amiga vendors missed
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 12:46:29 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

Portal as I don't subscribe because of their weird billing policies.  However
supporting users via the Usenet takes a little extra effort on the vendors part
and doesn't cost the users a dime! (usually!)  So what I am really trying to
say to those who do show up is that it is greatly appreciated.

And if I have missed other vendors due to my lack of paying attention, sorry in
advance, and thanks for being here.

***really off the box this time***
  //
\X/ -BiL-
    [e-mail]             (See my 'Imagine'-ary signature below)
---------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking of the same thing... Usually the only people that are
on the networks are students, commercial employees and  government employees.
But many commercial and non-commercial BBS's are now trying to link
with the nets to get a piece of the action, but some actually pay to get on
here. I am lucky since our university branch has a link with a bigger
organization and each student here only pays 25 dollars a semester,
not to mention almost anyone (over 18 and college type) can get an account
here. I don't pay a cent more and I don't get charged per minute or
hour... It is one shot... Then I see someone like Compuserve or
Delphi charge per word or letter for Email it just makes me puke...
Text data is the easiest kind of data to transfer and it takes
a fraction of a second to process and send across lines. I think
that the commercial boards charge for whatever they can get. Part of it
may be to cut down the overhead.

I have three accounts (here and on UNM main campus) and I have a
total of 22-27 megs on both accounts total and still the charge per
semester is the same. I guess everyone is either paying or getting it for
free..

But since the purportion of Commercial BBS's on the networks is
smaller than that of the number of other hosts on the networks, like
we have 4 on a subnet, then it seems a little crazy to
limit everything to what a Compuserve or Delphi or Portal, etc.,
users can do. I would suggest that the users of Compuserve and the
other networks demand better deals, send letters to the companies threatening
to stop their subscriptions unless fairer billing procedures are made.

I mean, I stopped subscribing to BMG becuase their deals were very
misleading (like buy two for 50% get one free, and buy one full
and get two free, what is the difference?) I think the companies
actually take the users for fools.. I may be wrong and it may
cost the company a lot for the connections but for what someone
like Compuserve is charging, if 1000 users were logged on for
10 hours the network connection for a super fast line would
be paid for an entire month, am I right?

I also suggest users of Prodigy stop at once.. It is a Sears and IBM
colaboration where I suspect that Sears is making money three ways,
first they have your money, second they do not have to charge themselves
for advertising and they charge others to advertise on prodigy (possibly),
and last (as I heard on a PBS program) they sell information, such as
what you bought on prodigy and where you live and what your hobbies are,
to other companies that are trying to find thier potential customers.
Plus there is all those reports regarding loss of privacy that are
a serious crime. Plus prodigy, as I hear, charges 10 cents (or more)
per letter that is sent to other users of prodigy... Business-wise
they are smart but literally they are unethical.

It doesn't make cents does it?
                     ^^^^^
                     (deliberate misspelling)


##

Subject: ICP, Pixel, DXF, etc.
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 93 08:38:14 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <rutgers!compuserve.com!76004.1763> writes:

> And [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) writes:
> > I miss the Wavefront converter in Interchange but with the Toaster I
> > can just load in Wavefront objects because a converter is built in as
> > is a DXF converter.  No attributes are converted with the built in
> > converters for Lightwave however.
>
> Both the Wavefront and DXF Converters in the Toaster do convert any
> attributes in the file...  what sort of problems did you have?  Did
> you read Appendix 12 in the Toaster manual?
>
> If you've got a Toaster, then you already own half of our
> top-of-the-line (yes, most expensive) converters.  NewTek licensed
> our translators for Wavefront, AutoCAD DXF, 3D Studio, Swivel 3D and
> Sculpt.  We also developed the Macintosh PICT loader/savers in the
> Toaster, and we licensed this code to ASDG for the PICT support in
> the latest Art Dept. Pro conversion pack.
>
> This conversion system is called TIO.  Like InterChange Plus, TIO is
> an extensible system, meaning you can drop in more Converters and
> they all work automatically.  We sell a add-on TIO Imagine Converter
> that lets LightWave import Imagine objects directly.
>
> TIO is much more automatic than ICP - converters start automatically,
> there are less options, etc.  At this time, the TIO system only
> contains loaders, not savers, meaning you can get Wavefront data into
> LightWave, but you can't save Wavefront objects.  (NewTek wanted it
> this way.)
>
> The corresponding add-on Converters for InterChange Plus are actually
> a revision beyond what's currently shipping in the Toaster, so they
> have a few more features.  Just this week, we shipped the new
> Autodesk 3D Studio Converter.

I was pleased to see these converters in Lightwave and I've been busy
trying out some objects from avalon.chinalake.navy.mil.  In most
cases the objects converted over fine.  These were all Wavefront
objects.  In only a couple of cases I received TIO errors.  Since I
don't have much experience with the .obj format, I am not sure what
caused these errors.  Possibly a low memory condition but I believe I
had my max set at 65000 polys.

The reason I said that the Toaster converters didn't seem to convert
attributes is because I could read some information about attributes
in the header of the object files but when I was in lightwave it
seemed the objects only had the "wavefront surface" surface setting
which turns out to be just like the Default setting.

Like I said, I didn't really spend alot of time pursuing this avenue
and I just converted some objects to see if Lightwave would load them
and work with them.

If anyone is interested, there are several ViewPoint objects up on
the chinalake FTP site.  I downloaded all the Viewpoint and other
Wavefront objects from the server there.  Once I get an additional
drive on my system here, I will offer all the objects I have for
either direct dial-up and download or mail-server requests.

John, what about the reduction of the triangle based TDDD objects to
Lightwave objects?  Am I missing something there or do you just do a
straight triangular polygon conversion?  I couldn't find anything in
the manual about reducing the data/polygons when doing this type of
conversion.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Re: Earth Mercator maps.
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 13:02:25 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

> Subject:  earth image
>
>
> I found a color and b&w projection of the earth based on sattelite height
> data taken at 1/2 degree increments. I forget the name of the individual
> who did the conversion from height to iff but it is included in the archive.
I have a color mercator map of the earth that has a really good shot when there
weren't very many clouds around.  If someone wants me to mail it to them and
then they can upload it just say so.  I currently have it in ppm and gif format.
--
Scott
[e-mail]

-------------------------------------
Can you put it on the nets?? Like on wuarchive?
If you can't, I will take it up here and put it on wuarchive.wustl.edu.

Ok?


##

Subject: Re: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 13:13:10 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    InterChange is one of those late-great programs that opens on the
    Workbench.  It's a remnant from the days when Commodore said that
    Intuition and Workbench was the way to go.  I know it's much more
    fashionable to have your own HAM screen with gadgets that look like
    brushed aluminum stero knobs, but we've got a very boring 4-color
    window.  So we work fine on the A4000 and 3.x.
-----------------------
Well to tell you the truth I think non-intuition programs are
ugly as heck.. Sometimes you can't even find what you are looking
for becuase the programmer made the gadgets less intuitive (pardon
the pun). I mean, how many would like to do DTP work with a interface
like MED's, for example. MED is fine with a non-intuition interface
but some programs look more professional without a custom graphics
interface on a custom screen, like I can't stand ADpro's interface
but HAMLAB's is really really professional looking and easy to use.

Kiernan


##

Subject: Mercator Maps.
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 16:38:18 EDT
From: scott a king <[e-mail]>

IML,

Well guys.  It sounds like you're interested in the map I have.  I've mailed it
to about 10 people some with access that said they would upload it.  I've been
trying to get onto wuarchive to upload but no luck and I'm very busy this
weekend.  If someone that I sent it to uploads it great.  If not I will try
sometime later this weekend or next week.
BTW I've been mailing out the .gif it is the original version the 24 bit ppm
was a conversion that I needed.  I also have some pictures of mars and the moon
but they aren't mercator just pasted satellite photos.  I will try to get those
to wuarchive in the next couple of weeks after things slow down.  If I fail to
do it in two weeks someone interested should remind me.
--
Scott
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Mercator Maps.
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 15:21:39 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

I was one of the "ten" and am uploading it to aminet (ftp.luth.se) now
as cloudless.lha

    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: Re: Earth mercator map
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 17:58:03 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

Everyone interested in the Mercator Map:

Scott has sent me the "(nearly) cloudless mercator map" and I will upload
it to wuarchive (and perhaps one or two other sites) as soon as I get the
chance.  This will happen either tonight (Friday) or tomorrow.

I will post exact information when available.  Stand by.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann     "Until the philosophy which holds one race superior
 ( )  [e-mail]  and another inferior is finally and permanently dis-
 Enjoying virtual memory  credited and abandoned, everywhere is war!" -- BM/HS


##

Subject: Re: Earth Mercator Maps
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 18:34:04 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

> I was one of the "ten" and am uploading it to aminet (ftp.luth.se) now
> as cloudless.lha

IMPORTANT NOTE

This image of the Earth is a cloudless composite of weather satellite
imagery.  It is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!

It, unfortunately, is HEAVILY copyrighted. [IE, it is copyrighted and
the owner actively procecutes violations.]  The image is titled "The
Earth From Space" and was assembled by Thomas Van Sant of the
GeoSphere Project in Los Angeles.  Since it was over a year's work by
a private individual and NOT sponsored by the government, it isn't
distributable in any way.  On the original image, there is a bold
"Copyright 1990" message along with the message "All Rights Reserved.
It is prohibited to use or reproduce this image without
authorization."

There was a thread on this topic on comp.graphics about a year and a
half ago. Since the image is SO nice and perfectly 3D oriented, it
apparently was copied extensively by animators, some of whom were
successfully sued for damages. :-(

So the file "cloudless.gif" or "cloudless.jpg" isn't legal to
distribute.

I don't post this to be a spoil sport or anything (I don't have
anything to do with Van Sant and have never spoken with him or his
company) but since I know about the copyright on this image I thought
it was important to inform people about it to prevent them from
possibly getting into trouble.

-Steve
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: earth image
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 23:13:43 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    BUT - I have the file and have converted it to VistaPro format and
    have been playing with it there.  The raw file format is a 720x360
    array of floating point elevations - including the ocean depths.
    The file is about 1MB or 750K in .lha archive format.
------------------------------------------------
Really 720x350 is alright but don't convert it is vistapro...
If someone has vistapro, why not let them make it??
You can do what you want but I would have use for only the Image
map...

Thanks...

Kiernan

(upload the image map to Aminet... if you can convert the vistapro file
to Imagine IOB format and upload that, that would be alright tooo...
I expect that would take a lot more space, but see I don't have vistapro..)


##

Subject: Re: Earth Mercator Maps
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 23:40:53 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    IMPORTANT NOTE

    This image of the Earth is a cloudless composite of weather satellite
    imagery.  It is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!

    It, unfortunately, is HEAVILY copyrighted. [IE, it is copyrighted and
    the owner actively procecutes violations.]  The image is titled "The
    Earth From Space" and was assembled by Thomas Van Sant of the
    GeoSphere Project in Los Angeles.  Since it was over a year's work by
    a private individual and NOT sponsored by the government, it isn't
    distributable in any way.  On the original image, there is a bold
    "Copyright 1990" message along with the message "All Rights Reserved.
    It is prohibited to use or reproduce this image without
    authorization."

    There was a thread on this topic on comp.graphics about a year and a
    half ago. Since the image is SO nice and perfectly 3D oriented, it
    apparently was copied extensively by animators, some of whom were
    successfully sued for damages. :-(

    So the file "cloudless.gif" or "cloudless.jpg" isn't legal to
    distribute.

    I don't post this to be a spoil sport or anything (I don't have
    anything to do with Van Sant and have never spoken with him or his
    company) but since I know about the copyright on this image I thought
    it was important to inform people about it to prevent them from
    possibly getting into trouble.

    -Steve
    [e-mail]

---------------------------------------------------
Well I will screw it up soo much Van Sant will not be
able to ever recognize it... ;-)


##

Subject: Re: Earth Mercator Maps (Copywrited)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 93 11:17:01 EDT
From: scott a king <[e-mail]>

> From [e-mail] Fri Apr  9 22:50:22 1993
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 18:34:04 -0700
> From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
> Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Earth Mercator Maps
>
>
> > I was one of the "ten" and am uploading it to aminet (ftp.luth.se) now
> > as cloudless.lha
>
> IMPORTANT NOTE
>
> This image of the Earth is a cloudless composite of weather satellite
> imagery.  It is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!
>
> It, unfortunately, is HEAVILY copyrighted. [IE, it is copyrighted and
> the owner actively procecutes violations.]  The image is titled "The
> Earth From Space" and was assembled by Thomas Van Sant of the
> GeoSphere Project in Los Angeles.  Since it was over a year's work by
> a private individual and NOT sponsored by the government, it isn't
> distributable in any way.  On the original image, there is a bold
> "Copyright 1990" message along with the message "All Rights Reserved.
> It is prohibited to use or reproduce this image without
> authorization."
>
> There was a thread on this topic on comp.graphics about a year and a
> half ago. Since the image is SO nice and perfectly 3D oriented, it
> apparently was copied extensively by animators, some of whom were
> successfully sued for damages. :-(
>
> So the file "cloudless.gif" or "cloudless.jpg" isn't legal to
> distribute.
>
> I don't post this to be a spoil sport or anything (I don't have
> anything to do with Van Sant and have never spoken with him or his
> company) but since I know about the copyright on this image I thought
> it was important to inform people about it to prevent them from
> possibly getting into trouble.
>
> -Steve
> [e-mail]
>
>
Sorry guys.  I found the image on a NASA machine somewhere and assumed it was
one of theirs.  It sounds like if ya got it enjoy it but don't use it for
anything.
--
Scott
[e-mail]


##

Subject: ICP, Wavefront, etc.
Date: 10 Apr 93 13:22:59 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>

To: >internet: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) writes:
> trying out some objects from avalon.chinalake.navy.mil.  In most
> cases the objects converted over fine.  These were all Wavefront
> objects.  In only a couple of cases I received TIO errors.  Since I

I have all of the avalon site.  (We're cherry-picking objects for the
upcoming Syndesis 3D-ROM product.)  A number of the Wavefront objects
are really munged, like they've been passed through 'ftp', Kermit,
VAXes and who knows what.  Really strange line endings, like NUL NUL
CR.  As I said in my posting, the Wavefront Converter in InterChange
Plus is a release beyond the one in the Toaster, so there have been a
few bug fixes and improvements since then.

If you weren't getting any named (but white color) surfaces in
LightWave, then the object didn't contain any 'usemtl' commands to
define the colors of faces.  (Wavefront also allows coloring by
vertex.  If the 'usemtl' commands were among 'v' commands, they have
no effect, because no Amiga program supports this.)

Wavefront .obj files define surface attributes by reference.  The
colors are not stored in the .obj file, they are in separate material
libraries.  Our Converter reads and writes material libraries, too.
If you've moved the material library to the Amiga, we can load it and
color the surfaces correctly.  Which file in particular wasn't
working?

Although "Wavefront" is a familiar name to many people, there are
actually very, very few actual installations of Wavefront software
out there - on the order of magnitude of 600.  So demand is not
great, but users usually demand some amount of hands-on assistance,
which is why our Wavefront Converter costs $295.  Our users tend to
be people who simply have access to Wavefront software at a nearby
studio.

We also get a lot of calls from starving students who want to convert
Internet objects.  They want the Converter to cost $15.  This is why
we've made the Syndesis 3D-ROM...  we're converting all those public
domain objects in expensive or obscure formats and putting them in
every other format, all in one convenient place, for a reasonable
price.

As for your last question about converting co-planar triangles to
equivalent polygons...  I've always wanted to do that, but more
importantly, I've always wanted to do it right.  Some companies are
content with charging for something that sorta-works that requires
extra tweaking afterwards.  It can be a tricky thing to do right.  It
should also solve the "flip one-sided faces to point outwards"
problem.


##

Subject: Humanoids From The Deep
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 07:48:41 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (Rich Nollman) agonizes:

>How/where do I get a copy of the april/may issue of New Teks Video Toaster?

The advertisement is also in the current issue of Amiga Video/Graphics
magazine (issue 3, page 13)  It should be on the stands soon I just
got my issue Friday.

Adam B.
************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                    [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator                   [e-mail]   *
* Disclaimer:  Nothing I say means anything to anyone that *
*               might take it to mean something I didn't!  *


##

Subject: Earth Mercator Maps
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 08:44:23 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

Thank you Steve.

I'll send a note along to Urban at amiga.physik and will ask him to remove
the archive that I uploaded.

Thank you.

    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: Limit to overridden edges for Make Smooth/Sharp
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 16:03:12 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

Is there a limit to how many edges may be overridden by the Make Sharp
or Make Smooth funcitons?

The specification for TDDD indicates that an unsigned byte is used to
determine how many edges are overridden implying that only 255 edges
may be overridden. Is this true? Is this documented?

(Thanks to John Foust for his help already. This question has come up with
regard to Interchange Plus and how it converts objects from one format
that supports smooth shading on a face by face basis to Imagine that allows
Phong shading on an edge by edge basis using Make Smooth/Sharp).



    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: Re: Limit to overridden edges for Make Smooth/Sharp
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 05:12:15 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)

>>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 93 16:03:12 MDT, [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen) said:

David> Is there a limit to how many edges may be overridden by the Make
David> Sharp or Make Smooth funcitons?

David> The specification for TDDD indicates that an unsigned byte is
David> used to determine how many edges are overridden implying that
David> only 255 edges may be overridden. Is this true? Is this
David> documented?

    Well, it has been awhile since I played with this stuff, but off
the top of my head, I believe that *all* edges in an object can have an
Edge Flag, and that the TDDD "EFLG" chunk has the same number of entries
(bytes, in this case) as does the EDGE chunk (3 shorts).  In other words,
for each EDGE, there is a byte that flags whether the edge is smooth or
not (I forget the exact values, but I added them to the T3DLIB docs
based on experimentation).

    Note that there is a limit in TDDD of 65535 edges per object, as
that is what an unsigned short can index (from the FACE chunk).

    Again, this is all from memory, but I think it is pretty
accurate.
                            -- Glenn


##

Subject: MapTrix
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 12:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

I just came across this interesting program on a local BBS.

This proram will generate textures algorythmically and
then allow you to do some simple image processning on
the generated texture.

There program I downloaded is a demo version; the upper bounds
of the image size are fixed.

I will spend a little more time examining the program but I
am sort of convinced I want the shareware fee to get the full
version.

Isn't great; so much great Amiga software is coming out.

Maptrix is from the Art Machine; the same people who
brought us Vertex.

If it is not already on wuarchive.wustl.edu, I shall upload it
there.


##

Subject: LightWave 3.0 presentation
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:38:52 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Special announcement to those on the list in the New England area....
Next week on Tuesday April 20th, I will be giving a presentation on
LightWave 3D to the Boston Computer Society's Amiga Users Group
I will show many of the program's advanced features and demo a variety of
useful tips and techniques. As an added bonus, NewTek has authorized me
to give a full demo of the new LightWave 3.0 software.

Time:      7:30 pm
Date:      Tuesday April 20th
Location:  Cambridge, MA
  MIT Building E51 Room 302
  E51 is the Sloan School building on Memorial Drive at Wadsworth St (2nd
  street East from Massachusetts Ave)
  Entrance to parking from Amherst Street

For further info call Phil Nathanson at [phone] (Eve.) or [phone]
(Day), or Pat Ryan at [phone].
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Re: Re: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: 14 Apr 93 14:26:44 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>

To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Philippe Berard) writes:
> > I was always curious about Pixel's interface; I could tell that some
> > of the gadgets were drawing in strange orders.  It made me wonder if
> > they were "real" Intuition gadgets.
> It's getting really boring ! What about ICP non-standard
> file-requesters or listviews ? Why isn't there any menu ?

If you've got ideas about an alternative interface for InterChange
Plus, I'd be glad to discuss them with you.  What would you put on a
menu?  We do use a standard file requester where it makes sense
(loading settings files in the InterFont Converter, for example) but
since ICP's interface is just a glorified file requester, we rolled
our own.  It has been since 1987 - back when Commodore still thought
custom file requesters were a good waste of a programmer's time.

> I've dumped Pixel3DXL screen, window and gadget structures to try to
> have a proof of your assumptions, and got standard Intuition Gadget
> structures, so I think it's not really fair play to critisize a
> product with your personnal beliefs.

Don't take my word for it.  Other people have said Pixel has trouble
with mode promotion, for example.  I don't know what Axiom is doing
wrong, and it's not my job to discover it for them.  I said, gee,
their gadgets appear and refresh in strange ways.  Period.  And I
don't see the logic in your "proof".   A tool that dumps standard
Intuition Gadget structures demonstrates nothing.  How could that
prove that they're doing something non-standard, if it only knows how
to dump standard structures?  And there's a lot more to well-behaved
Intuition than just setting up a few structures, you need code, too.

> Now, I think this discussion is completely out of subject.  Making a
> comparison between ICP and P3D Pro is interesting, but saying
> personnal things about Harv or other people is completely
> UNPROFESSIONAL, period.

I didn't make any unprofessional personal remarks.  Can you be more
specific?  OK, let me get this straight:   I can't be "boring", I
can't talk about other products, I can't speculate about any strange
behaviors of any program.  Look on the bright side.  I don't have a
long signature, and I don't send endless "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" messages to the wrong address.


##

Subject: Re: Humanoids From The Deep
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 19:03:59 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>

> [e-mail] (Rich Nollman) agonizes:
>
> >How/where do I get a copy of the april/may issue of New Teks Video Toaster?
>
> The advertisement is also in the current issue of Amiga Video/Graphics
> magazine (issue 3, page 13)  It should be on the stands soon I just
> got my issue Friday.
>
> Adam B.

As a registered user of Cycleman, I just received via snail mail a
two page announcement, description and order form for "Humanoids".
When I get time, I will try to type and post some of its text for you all.
If someone else doesn't do it first.

         __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]    McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"


##

Subject: The Imagine Landfill
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 21:30:28 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)

Howdy RenderManiacs!  :-)

We now have a place to rest...a place to call our own.

The new "official" (if there *is* such a thing) home, depository and
official IML landfill is wuarchive.wustl.edu.

We have a directory there:

/pub/amiga/incoming/imagine


In this directory, there are the following sub-directories:

art
archive
anims
objects


Please use these sub-directories as our "window to the world" and
be certain to put your creations in the appropriate subdirectory there.

I will be including this information in the IML Guide for new readers.
In the archive sub-directory, we will keep the text files, including
tutorials, the official FAQ (maintained by our own Michael Comet),
and naturally, the immaculately kept archives of our list
(courtesy of our friend Marvin Landis).

In the art sub-directory, we will keep the actual pictoral output
in whatever format winds your clock.

I guess the anim and object sub-directories are self-explanatory, right? :-)

Marvin, thank you for making space on your server in the meantime while
I got some area for us set up over at wuarchive.wustl.edu.

So, if you have a little spare time... take a few minutes to drop
a file or two over there and we will have a fine showing in no time at all.


Dave Wickard  [phone]
[e-mail]        "This is the uniform I've used for years
[e-mail]        and it's the one I'm sticking to!"
                                "You wouldn't have the trouble if you washed it."
                                -Cliff and Karla on CHEERS


##

Subject: Re: The Imagine Landfill
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 23:15:15 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    So, if you have a little spare time... take a few minutes to drop
    a file or two over there and we will have a fine showing in no time
    at all.


    Dave Wickard  [phone]
-------------------------------------------------------
Wait til I get that copy of the entire earth.. ;-) , not really ,
I don't believe Syndesis will be able to stuff that on one CD... It will
probably be like a set collection of earth data, maybe.

But, i will try to get my custom hands and other such objects up there
sometime... When I have time. I guess I could upload it but my custom
hand takes 150K just by itself and with that revised human-object
is about 400K. Does anyone know how to force Imagine to fill in
areas of a IFF/ILBM ported image with polygons.. When i try to
port a ILBM image into Imagine I have to manually polygonize the
objects...

Thanks..

PS - I'm working on a 3D object of our (small but not insignificant)  campus
(when I get time) and Imagine is really coming in handy. Fly-throughs
on the way! ;-) I just heard from my supervisor that we might get one
of those dual-processor XL SGI workstations (the one with 170 Mips
performance) for a server (we now have a ~11 mips MIPS R2000 Unix server,
talk about an upgrade!!!). Did you know there is a SGI server that
can do something like 1500 mips and costs 800,000 dollars?
Sheeeeshhh!!! I'll be happy when those get down to something I can
afford... maybe 10 years from now.

Kiernan


##

Subject: Re: 3D-trees to use in IMAGINE
Date: 15 Apr 93 02:13:12 EST
From: [e-mail] () (Amiga Graphics BBS 516-473-6351)

     Um, guys, have you thought of RAYDANCE??  It's from Radiance Software
and it is one of the finest programs I've seen in a while.  You write script
files to generate images and object files.

     A simple modification to the provided scripts (26 tutorials) with allow
you to render a forest of 50+ trees (each tree has 60,000+ polygons) on a 6MB
Amiga!

     RayDance allows you to replicate objects and mess with their
texture/brushmap parameters, locations, etc. WITHOUT copying the object.

     Raydance also exports to .GEO and .LWOB formats so you can use Pixel or
Vertex or whatever else exists to convert to and from Imagine formats.

     If you render in Raydance, then you can use your images as
wraps/backdrops in Imagine or in final compositing with ADPRo.

<< Raj >>

Oh yeah, I'm just a happy customer of RayDance


##

Subject: Real3D 2.0
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:54:37 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith)

What's the latest on Real3D 2.0? When is it comming out, how much, any
interesting features that I may not know about. (I know it does ray-tracing,
physical motion models, and imports DXF (what other formats?)). Does it
import Imagine, and does it support DCTV? And to anyone who may have used
a beta version of it, how is the learning curve assuming I can use Imagine
pretty well.

Oh, and I have some other questions while I'm on :) ...

I need to have about 5 VCRs running simultaneously. And I need them all to
start at precisly the same time. What is the cheap but workable solution to
this?

And does anyone know where I can get detailed objects for the Shuttle (with
SRBs, and external tank), and the launch pad. If there are not any public
domain versions of these objects, I will pay for them if the price is reasonable

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                                                   |      Tom Smith         |
| Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives.              |         tes@           |
|                                                   | gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: FTP via wuarchive.wustl.edu
Date: 15 Apr 1993 03:40:35 -1000
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>

  I have several objects and animations that I would not mind
contributing but some of the animations are rather large, around
1 to 5 MB.

-Jeff Wahaus-

=========================================================================
 [e-mail]           Software Artist           Amiga 2000/030
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The best code optimizer is in your head.   I always want more for less.
=========================================================================


##

Subject: 3D object conversion
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 9:15:28 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Thorne Kontos)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a conversion program to handle
the .dgn files from Intergraph's MicroStation (tm). Since I work for them
I have been able to use this program to create 3D objects, but I don't have
a clue as to how to convert them into other formats. I can of course save the
images of the objects in any format (rgb,tiff,miff,gif, and then to ham...
yes it is a tedious path, but it is worth it). Microstation (tm) is
available on PC's but it is rather pricey (about $2500). So if anyone knows
of a conversion program, I'll put up some objects on wuarchive. I have a
few tiff/gif files on my workstation and if there is an interest I'll put
those in the imagine/art directory on wuarchive as well.

                                                       Thanks,
                                                       Thorne K. Kontos
                                                       System Engineer
                                                       Intergraph A.P.D.


##

Subject: Re: 3D object conversion
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 13:55:55 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)

|Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a conversion program to handle
|the .dgn files from Intergraph's MicroStation (tm). Since I work for them
|I have been able to use this program to create 3D objects, but I don't have
|a clue as to how to convert them into other formats. I can of course save the
|images of the objects in any format (rgb,tiff,miff,gif, and then to ham...
|yes it is a tedious path, but it is worth it). Microstation (tm) is
|available on PC's but it is rather pricey (about $2500). So if anyone knows
|of a conversion program, I'll put up some objects on wuarchive. I have a
|few tiff/gif files on my workstation and if there is an interest I'll put
|those in the imagine/art directory on wuarchive as well.

    Convert the .dgn files to .dxf.  You should be able to convert the
    dxf file to a number of other formats using other translators.
    There has been an awesome amount of information about Interchange
    Plus's ability to handle dxf files lately.  That would be my first
    try.  I don't know of any translators that go directly from .dgn
    to other object formats.  Let me know how you solve the problem.
    I have been wanting to do something along those lines as well.  I
    just haven't had the time to experiment.

    Microstation is pricey, but then so is AutoCAD.  I used ACAD in
    college and use Microstation now.  Microstation is very nice.  I
    wish it was available on the Amiga.

|
|                                                       Thanks,
|                                                       Thorne K. Kontos
|                                                       System Engineer
|                                                       Intergraph A.P.D.
|
|


       _____________________________^_____________________________
                                  __ __
                                ____ ____
       _____________________________ _____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support
       MailStop: LR24A4
       Tel: [phone]
       [e-mail]

                                    .


##

Subject: Re: 3D-trees to use in IMAGINE
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:50:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: [e-mail] (Colin Stobbe)

>      Um, guys, have you thought of RAYDANCE??  It's from Radiance Software
> and it is one of the finest programs I've seen in a while.  You write script
> files to generate images and object files.
>
     Well, you have to write scripts <bleah>  I personally just can't
visualize how the objects will interact with each other, when I'm just
punching numbers into a text file (though I've talked to some people
who apparently prefer doing it this way!)

>      A simple modification to the provided scripts (26 tutorials) with allow
> you to render a forest of 50+ trees (each tree has 60,000+ polygons) on a 6MB
> Amiga!
>
     And it'll take you forever and a day to render it

>      RayDance allows you to replicate objects and mess with their
> texture/brushmap parameters, locations, etc. WITHOUT copying the object.

     Well, I played around with a copy that a friend of mine had.  It's a
neat program, but I've gotten used to a GUI myself.  I think Real 3D 2.0
is also supposed to support fractal trees (I guess I'll see when I get
it :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Stobbe              |  There is a hole in your mind... and your
[e-mail]  |    underwear as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Group project needs volenteers
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 18:13:38 EDT
From: Peter Mancini <[e-mail]>

Forwarded message:
>From pmancini Tue Apr 13 18:39:41 1993
Subject: Group project needs volenteers
To: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 18:39:30 EDT
From: Peter Mancini <pmancini>
Cc: pmancini (Peter Mancini)
Action: volenteer Today!
Priority: Urgent
Expires: Tue, 20 Apr 93
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi there,
    Can you model your way out of a wet paper bag?  Can you model a
wet paper bag?  If so I have an excellent group project which I will
chair.

Project: Shape School 101

Goal: To produce a tutorial on how to make model shapes using Imagine.

Strategy:  By setting up a common theme scene members of the group will
take on the task of 1) creating chosen models of the scene, 2)
documending the tools and tasks needed to produce the model, 3) provide
the model, brushmaps, and ham render.  The chair will then collect
these, produce a stage file, produce a render, and bundle the package on
the net as a tutorial for all level of users.

Discussion:
    This is half Dave Wicards idea, and half mine.  Mind you all the
hare-brained portions are completely mine.  Here is what I'd like to do:
Create a scene populated by many objects.  Volenteers would contact me
and request to do an object tutorial.  I'd let them know if someone else
is doing that object or not.  I'll then gather the results and create a
package that can be put on FTP sites, and commercial boards.  The value
of this package to new users and veteran Imagine community members is great.

The Proposed Scene:
    I propose we do Joe's Diner.  The need for objects range from
the minor (diner plate, plain), to the difficult (diner plate with
dinner, blue plate special), to the extreme (Juke Box with working
parts).  Here is a list of objects that I can think of that need
modeling:

Diner, exterior shell
Joe's Diner Neon Sign
Working Juke Box
Working Ceiling fan
Working Ceiling lamps
Stool
wall clock
grill
cooking implements (grill scraper, prongs, wood saw ;-)
spoon
fork
plate
plate with food
broken floor tile
glass
coke bottle (old fasion kind)
news paper
cash register
Joe
burger
fryulator
fries
Salt/pepper shakers
Katsup/cetchkup/catsup,gKaughtsupp/add local spelling here bottle
money
trash recepticle (box with "push" engraved on it)
trash
mop
Dart Board
Calender (go easy on the pinup, ok?)
Calendar (well, one of these is a strainer and the other one tracks the
date, both would be useful)
Tap
Door

    Not all of these objects needs to be made for the project.
There are probably items I've missed.  Lets discuss this.  If you can
add to this projects (list of items, scope, ect.) please do so on the
list.  If you want a part of this, contact me
([e-mail]).
    All objects must be public domain.  You must be the author of
the object, and you must provide all .iff files, brushes, etc.  If you
want to submit previous work, but can't find all the brushes and whatnot
used to create the item, then save yourself and I some time and don't.
I want only items that people can use right away to improve their
skills.
    If I don't recieve many (any) volenteer requests I will still do
a tutorial on some objects.  If you are interested in that let me know.

--Pete "my fingers ache" Mancini


##

Subject: Re: Group project needs volenteers
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 13:54:45 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    Some questions regarding this stuff...how are you going to
render this?  My guess is if you try to do a simple render of everything
together, you won't have any where near enough RAM.  Reason:  good
objects are BIG....especially with brushmaps, even more so, since people
would be making this separately, they will be more apt to go heavy on
big brushes and high objects....  could be a problem.  Heck, a "simple"
clock I made took up about 2 megs.  Also, you will have to have some
standard way of define locations of wraps and textures and whether things
like essence can be used...ie: you don't wan't to have to go back and
rename 20 bushmaps per object by hand! Don't forget, you'll want to set
a scale too, ie: 1 imagine unit = 1 centimeter etc...

    I don't mean to say this can't be done, I am just wondering if
you've thought of these?  One possible solution to the ram problem is to
place all objects in a scene, and then render from back to front
separate pictures and to then composite them together.  I think Steve
Worley's Understanding Imagine 2.0 book covers this idea.

    Well, let me know if I can help!



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: Editing times
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 14:23:40 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Thomas E. Smith)

I'm going to be getting an editing deck with a single frame controller. Can
someone tell me how much time it takes it to record 1000 frames or some other
usefull increment? Thanks.

                                                   Tom Smith


##

Subject: Re: Editing times
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 17:43:18 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I'm going to be getting an editing deck with a single frame controller. Can
> someone tell me how much time it takes it to record 1000 frames or some other
> usefull increment? Thanks.

It depends entirely on the deck but about 1.5 hours would not be out of line.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Re: Editing times
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 23:05:12 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    > I'm going to be getting an editing deck with a single frame
    > controller. Can someone tell me how much time it takes it to
    > record 1000 frames or some other
    > usefull increment? Thanks.

    It depends entirely on the deck but about 1.5 hours would not be out
    of line.
-------------------------------------------
How much does a editing deck usually sell for, I mean street price or
used?? It would be pretty neat to own one. I would also like to
know what kind of software is available to automate one.
Also, I would like to know how hard it is to write a program just
to tell a editing deck when to record a frame and such... It seems to me
that it would be pretty easy just to hand the editing deck a set of
control words through a serial or parallel port just to increment or
do whatever.  How hard can it be?


##

Subject: Re:  Group project needs volenteers
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 00:19:40 -0600
From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>

    parts).  Here is a list of objects that I can think of that need
    modeling:

    Diner, exterior shell
---------------
I might be able to do this... I would have to know what it looks like..
----------------
    Joe's Diner Neon Sign
-----------------
I could do this if I knew how to extrude along a path..
-----------------
    Working Juke Box
------------------
I could do it, but it would take a lot of time...
------------------
    Working Ceiling fan
------------------
No problem??... I only know how to do hierarchical objects from
the object editor.
-------------------
    Working Ceiling lamps
--------------------
This would take some imagination... How complex??
---------------------
    Stool
----------------------
I think I have one of these already... I could probably make one just
like you find in a New Mexico Blake's lottaburger...
----------------------
    wall clock
----------------------
60's? style?? 70's style or 80's style, or a real 50's style
with neon and all that stuff... This could be hard.
-----------------------
    grill
------------------------
Metal top, or burner type??
-------------------------
    cooking implements (grill scraper, prongs, wood saw ;-)
------------------------
Grill scraper, easy... Prongs hard, wood saw - never saw one.
-----------------------
    spoon
-----------------------
That could be hard... Diner spoon stainles... or army class spoons with
wide tear-drop shaped flat handle?
-----------------------
    fork
-----------------------
same?
------------------------
    plate
-------------------------
White plate with a blue circle on the edges and anchor designs on
the mid-edges, and a picture of popeye in the middle?
-------------------------
    plate with food
--------------------------
Cattle frys... Sorry that wasn't in good taste...
Umm.. Big greasy hamburger, bunch-o-thick greasy fries almost the size
of your pinky, katchup smothered fries.

that would be very hard...
--------------------------
    broken floor tile
    glass
    coke bottle (old fasion kind)
    news paper
    cash register
    Joe
    burger
    fryulator
    fries
    Salt/pepper shakers
    Katsup/cetchkup/catsup,gKaughtsupp/add local spelling here bottle
    money
    trash recepticle (box with "push" engraved on it)
    trash
    mop
    Dart Board
    Calender (go easy on the pinup, ok?)
    Calendar (well, one of these is a strainer and the other one tracks the
    date, both would be useful)
    Tap
    Door
-------------------------------
That's a lot of stuff...
Well I'll take the stool, salt/pepper shakers, trash (all I need is that
silly magnet tool and I can make anything look like trash),
door and maybe the trash recepticle... Those would take maybe
4-5 hours...

When is the due date on this?
----------------------------------
    take on the task of 1) creating chosen models of the scene, 2)
    documending the tools and tasks needed to produce the model, 3) provide
    the model, brushmaps, and ham render.  The chair will then collect
    these, produce a stage file, produce a render, and bundle the package on
    the net as a tutorial for all level of users.
-----------------------------------
No problem... I document every homework assignment I do...
Speaking of homework I have a lot of it... Could I take one maybe
2 or 3 of the objects??
I'd take the stool, trashcan and the salt/pepper shakers.

I am using Imagine 1.1 so you may have to modify my documents and
update my techniques, but I , if I work hard enough at it, can
do just about any object I can see, and dump it in Imagine...
-----------------------------------------------
    Discussion:
        This is half Dave Wicards idea, and half mine.  Mind you all the
    hare-brained portions are completely mine.  Here is what I'd like to do:
-------------------
Not hare-brained to me...
-------------------
    Create a scene populated by many objects.  Volenteers would contact me
    and request to do an object tutorial.  I'd let them know if someone else
    is doing that object or not.  I'll then gather the results and create a
    package that can be put on FTP sites, and commercial boards.  The value
    of this package to new users and veteran Imagine community members is great.
-----------------------
Ya, I know... I might put in info on how to port the objects (maybe an
appendix) how to port them to rayshade and create the necessary files
to render the images on Rayshade (which is good if you happen to
have access to one of those 1500 MIPS gizmos).
------------------------
    The Proposed Scene:
        I propose we do Joe's Diner.  The need for objects range from
    the minor (diner plate, plain), to the difficult (diner plate with
    dinner, blue plate special), to the extreme (Juke Box with working
    parts).  Here is a list of objects that I can think of that need
------------------------
I suggest that we decide on the style, year, or guestimate on it and
try for that becuase a 70's juke box and a 50's diner will look
strange.. If that isn't important then ok...

Notice that IF then Structure, owww gut com-puter lang-auge on me brain.
Phony accent there...
-------------------------

        Not all of these objects needs to be made for the project.
    There are probably items I've missed.  Lets discuss this.  If you can
    add to this projects (list of items, scope, ect.) please do so on the
    list.  If you want a part of this, contact me
    ([e-mail]).
        All objects must be public domain.  You must be the author of
    the object, and you must provide all .iff files, brushes, etc.  If you
    want to submit previous work, but can't find all the brushes and whatnot
    used to create the item, then save yourself and I some time and don't.
    I want only items that people can use right away to improve their
    skills.
        If I don't recieve many (any) volenteer requests I will still do
    a tutorial on some objects.  If you are interested in that let me know.
-----------------------------------
more objects:

(someone can do these if they want)

tables, chairs, booths, Seeburg juke-o-matic, Glass doors with 50's style
designs... (i'm 22 and I'm talking about 50's styles... well my dad is 62,
so what the hey), maybe an Ice machine, fridge,
order-merry-go-round-about-thingy, hole in the wall where cook works...
metal doors with a round or square glass 10 inch window on the top half.
Coffee maker, shake machine, payphone, coke sign on the wall saying
enjoy with Joe's dinner printed under, glass box with lemon creme pies,
Menu with 10 items or more, tip change left astray with couple quarters
two dimes and a penny (just barely a dollar), napkin holder,
glass with straws, small box with toothpicks, a good-cause donation box,
a bowl of breath-mints, pen with chain made of small metal spheres
(for checks), a credit-card machine, a police officer named "Frank",
short middle-aged gal named "sally", Life-sized fiber-glass boy
carrying a burger (like kips or vips big boy, depending on if you lived
in texas or new mexico, like that...), gumball machine near the door,
thrifty-nickel newspapers, and a newspaper machine.

Anyone got any more ideas??


##

Subject: Re:  Group project needs volenteers
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 2:34:58 CDT
From: Evan Kirchhoff <[e-mail]>

Not to sound overly skeptical, or anything...but all these objects are
going to fit on a single image?  In HAM?  How about 1200 x 1000 JPEG,
or maybe a 10-meg walkthrough anim? :-)

Evan K.


##

Subject: vcrs starting together
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 10:23:27 -0400
From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>

About the simultaneous VCR starting thing...
  You could try using all the same brand of VCR, with
  one remote that they all would sense.  Put 'em all
  in Record/pause mode, then hit the pause button, and
  you might have a somewhat close approximation of
  starting kinda near each other.
  (you said cheap, right??)

Scott Krehbiel
Scruffy-lookin Nerfherder
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Imagine Pc
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 13:07:58 -0500
From: "Tony R. Boutwell" <[e-mail]>

Anyone have the low-down on Imagine for the PC yet...?
I ordered it 5 months ago (before christmas) and it
started shipping about 3-4 days ago....

will it be same as amiga???

what anim format will it right out to?

since it is on the pc will it right out dxf objs??? or what?

and how about anim size....on the amiga I had dctv for hi-color, low-size
anims....but on the pc these pics (vistapro 3.0) are huge....

Tony Boutwell
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



and to the fellow with the 5 vcr's running at the same time....
we use 15 vcrs....(all same) for dubbing and just use one remote...

...pause.....they all pause.....rec.....they all record....


##

Subject: Re: Editing times
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 07:47:36 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

Mark Thompson <rutgers!westford.ccur.com!mark> writes:

> > I'm going to be getting an editing deck with a single frame controller. Can
> > someone tell me how much time it takes it to record 1000 frames or some oth
> > usefull increment? Thanks.
>
> It depends entirely on the deck but about 1.5 hours would not be out of line.

I don't think it depends *entirely* on the deck.  It also depends on
your source.  I run single frame from my Toaster to a Sony PVW 2800
BetaCam SP deck and 300 frames takes around 3-4 hours to lay down on
tape.  There is alot of time spent (in my case) loading in the
Toaster Framestores, pumping them to the buffer and then queueing
the deck back for preroll and then recording the frame.  This is done
for each and every frame by the Personal Single Frame Controller I
have from Nucleous Electronics.  All this takes time.  I save my
FrameStores compressed so that slows the process down a bit because
they need to be decompressed prior to sending to the framebuffer.

In any case, the same delays will probably be experienced to a degree
no matter what framebuffer you use.  IFF24 images will have to be
loaded and decompressed to other framebuffers and that takes a bit of
time.  Any deck you use is going to have to queue back to a preroll
point about 5 seconds before the edit point and then roll for the
edit.  The roll usually lasts an addition 5-10 seconds past the edit
point.  Then the deck has to do it all over again, so you are talking
several seconds of time are eaten up for each frame of animation.
Next time I dump to tape I will time the process of laying a single
frame to tape with my setup.  From there you can calculate for as
many frames as you have to lay down.

-- Bob


 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878


##

Subject: Re:  Group project needs volenteers
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 16:27:39 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    Not to sound overly skeptical, or anything...but all these objects are
    going to fit on a single image?  In HAM?  How about 1200 x 1000 JPEG,
    or maybe a 10-meg walkthrough anim? :-)

    Evan K.

-------------------------------------------------------------
A Anim might take forever.... But I say all three..


##

Subject: IBM PC is HERE...
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 16:46:38 -0500
From: "Tony R. Boutwell" <[e-mail]>

Hi....the Ibm version of Imagine came in today...and........

<drum roll>

didnt work.... nada....nothing....zilch......

I am using a 486-DX 50 8 megs of ram....
I ran it off of my e: drive which is a 90-meg removable
(which everything else works fine with)

my c: drive is too full of windows stuff....

when I run it, it loads for about 2-4 seconds and then just kicks back
out to dos...??? so I tried running it without my expanded memory manager
then it just locked up completely.....it never gets to any screen or anything?

AND.... not to be flaming anyone....but the disk it came on said for the
AMIGA....and the little addendum also said that the <new> buyers of Imagine for
the pc would also be getting the amiga manual...<----????

I know... I Know.... the prog is supposed to be real close to the amiga
version....(but still).....

and it (the addendum) which only covers installing it, never says anything
about if it doesnt work try this....or... anything....

oh I am using stacker also...(if it matters)?

Believe me there is no flame intended here...just think that they would
approach the pc market very professionally if they want to start off with
good repuatation...(which I feel they have on the amiga side)...

Tony Boutwell


##

Subject: Re: IBM PC is HERE...
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 23:06:07 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>Hi....the Ibm version of Imagine came in today...and........
>
>
>oh I am using stacker also...(if it matters)?
>

    Hmmmm this could be a problem I suppose.  Did you call them?
Oh yeah, it's the weekend.  I forgot!

    Well, I hope my version works, My system sounds pretty similar,
we'll have to see.....

PS:  You could always buy an A4000 right! :)


--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: Re: IBM PC is HERE...
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 8:58:40 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)

Tony Boutwell writes:

> when I run it, it loads for about 2-4 seconds and then just kicks back
> out to dos...??? so I tried running it without my expanded memory manager
> then it just locked up completely.....it never gets to any screen or anything?

In Impulse's section of AmigaVendor of CompuServe, Rick Rodriguez reports
the following in response to someone with a similar problem:

>William, is there an Imagine.pic located in your Imagine directory. This is
>rather silly, but some disks were sent out without one and the program will
>not run if it doesn't find the file in the directory. If you don't, take
>any hi-res, 16-color IFF file, name it Imagine.pic and copy it into the
>Imagine drawer.
>
>Please bear with Impulse on this one.  There're more PC variables out there
>than you can "Imagine!" :-)
>
>But I have run the program on 486, 33 and it does work. I promise!
>Let me know if you have any luck.
>                               --Rick Rodriguez

I hope this helps.

Steve

PS. Anyone wanting to know how they can sign up for CompuServe can send me
e-mail for details.


##

Subject: Re: Re: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 17:19:08 MET
From: [e-mail] (Philippe Berard)

Hello John (John Foust / Syndesis Corporation). On Apr 14, you have written :

> [e-mail] (Philippe Berard) writes:
>
> If you've got ideas about an alternative interface for InterChange
> Plus, I'd be glad to discuss them with you.  What would you put on a

    Of course : use of AppWindows to drop modules in, or objects

                use 'standard' GadTools ListViews, or, better, try
                to use BOOPSI classes for this (it would be a great
                step forward, as GadTools won't be the standard of
                the future anymore). Try to make ListViews a little
                bit bigger in vertical

                make the GUI font-sensitive (a tool named GadLayout
                should make it easier)

    I have many other ideas. If you would like to see a complete reworked
    GUI, I could send you the picture of how I would ICP's GUI to be.

> menu?  We do use a standard file requester where it makes sense
> (loading settings files in the InterFont Converter, for example) but

    Yes, but what about files ? Having to press 'Next Disk' for each
    volume is a little bit boring (a perfect GUI should allow the user
    to do 99% of his actions with the mouse, so having to enter the
    exact Assign in the string gadget isn't so simple).

> since ICP's interface is just a glorified file requester, we rolled
> our own.  It has been since 1987 - back when Commodore still thought
> custom file requesters were a good waste of a programmer's time.

    Yes, but they didn't make any file requester until WB 2.0, and Asl
    isn't quick enough (even under 3.01), comparing to ReqTools or
    MFR.

> wrong, and it's not my job to discover it for them.  I said, gee,
> their gadgets appear and refresh in strange ways.  Period.  And I

    Sorry, you said : "I was always curious about Pixel's interface;
    I could tell that some of the gadgets were drawing in strange
    orders. It made me wonder if they were "real" Intuition gadgets"

    Quoted from your previous mail. Now, I say : Yes, these are "real"
    Intuition gadgets. That's all.

> don't see the logic in your "proof".   A tool that dumps standard
                             vvvvv
    No logic but, yes, a  >> PROOF << ;-)
                             ^^^^^

> Intuition Gadget structures demonstrates nothing.  How could that

    It demonstrates that Pixel 3D's GUI is built with standard Intuition
    Gadgets, and it was the answer to your question.

> prove that they're doing something non-standard, if it only knows how
> to dump standard structures?  And there's a lot more to well-behaved
> Intuition than just setting up a few structures, you need code, too.

    Of course, I can't know what Pixel 3D is doing during it's event
    loop, and this program is under copyrights, so I have no legal
    way to know how it works. But the fact is here, they use standard
    Intuition Gadgets (and Windows, and Screen).

    If you expect me to disassemble Pixel 3D and to post the source
    in the ML, you'll have to pay me thousands of dollars ! ;-)

> I didn't make any unprofessional personal remarks.  Can you be more
> specific?  OK, let me get this straight:   I can't be "boring", I
> can't talk about other products, I can't speculate about any strange
> behaviors of any program.

    Of course you can talk about other products, I said I found it
    interesting, but saying "I guess their program doesn't use standard
    screens" or "Voxel 4D should have been done by a man who wasn't sit
    on a chair" has nothing to do in a comparison, it's just the way you
    think things are, nothing more (no metaphysic reply here, please :-) )


> Look on the bright side.  I don't have a long signature, and I don't

    Look on the bright side : Pixel 3D can do things Interchange Plus
    can't, and vice versa. Having both is surely the best solution.

> send endless "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" messages to the wrong address.

    But this is another, long, story...

    Sincerely,
                                   -- Philippe

.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|  Philippe Berard  (French Amiga User)       | UseNet : [e-mail] |
|  "They hold a cup of wisdom,                | -> Please don't send mails   |
|   But there is nothing within" (Kate Bush). |           >50 Ko !           |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'


##

Subject: Seeking Imagine object - monitor
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 13:59:57 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)

Anybody have an Imagine object for a Commodore monitor?  Please
upload it to wuarchive (and drop me a note)!

Thanks.

        Mike


##

Subject: Re: Seeking Imagine object - monitor
Date: 18 Apr 93 18:05:00 EST
From: "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>

>Anybody have an Imagine object for a Commodore monitor?  Please
>upload it to wuarchive (and drop me a note)!

  I'm looking for one, too.  If anyone has one, or knows where one
is, I'd like to know.  (Might as well just put it - the message,
NOT the object - on the IML.)

  --Andy Church


##

Subject: Re: Seeking Imagine object - monitor
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 02:12:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    From root Sun Apr 18 13:02 MDT 1993
    Received: from email.SP.Paramax.COM by chicoma.lanl.gov (5.61/3.3) with SMTP
        id <[e-mail]>; Sun, 18 Apr 93 13:02:36 -0600
    Received: by email.sp.paramax.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C)
        id AA13218; Sat, 17 Apr 93 08:24:18 -0500
    Received: by aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
        id AA19004; Sun, 18 Apr 93 13:59:57 EDT
    Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 13:59:57 EDT
    From: [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)
    Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
    To: [e-mail]
    Subject: Seeking Imagine object - monitor
    Cc: [e-mail]

    Anybody have an Imagine object for a Commodore monitor?  Please
    upload it to wuarchive (and drop me a note)!

    Thanks.

            Mike

----------------------------------------------
There was a AMiga 1000 in Turbo SIlver (Imagine's older brother)
object format that had a monitor, I think... Or was that
Sculpt 3D format??? Welll , if you can't find one,
I could probably make one.. It houldn't be tooo hard...
You could take three pictures fro the front, left and top of the monitor,
since it is more or less cubicle, take the images into image through
the detail editor, arrange the pieces such that the parts line up
and include the primary shape of each other, then just
slice, delete what you do not want, take the resulting object,
join it, copy that object, size it down a little bit, then merge it,
join whatever you need to do to make it one object, then slice a
square (rounded edges) through the front portion, remove all
parts but the edges that connect the inner and outer parts of the
box... take a sphere, distort it so you get a flat curve, take the remaing
pieces from the last slice, and slice the sphere, take the curved
intersection out, copy it, move it back a bit and paste, redraw,
connect all the dots on the edges of both curves using ADD FACES,
make the object of a glass texture or gloss it over, and install it
into the box such that it covers up all the holes that may allow the
eye to see into the object from around the edges... You could go on
to make the button for the display, the LED light, the little commodore
logo do the same thing.. You could even add the vents in the back and the cord
(plug) slot...

It might take about 25 minutes, but it is good to get that experience..

PS - I amy now working on salt shakers, and the stool for JOE's diner...
At least I have the IFF's made for the details and such...
I'm going to make my objects first then write a tutorial... but it is
going to be a lot better than the Quikie I wrote above... And a
lot more descriptive... I can't make any promises since I am graduating
this semester and going down to main campus next semester (I'm in a
branch college) so I am pretty busy, but then again I love this stuff...

;-)


Later


##

Subject: IMAGINE PC
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 18:47:10 -0500
From: "Tony R. Boutwell" <[e-mail]>

well I checked the imagine.pic....and it is there.....but something I
noticed was that there was imagine.cfg file there....when I looked at it
it had some info stuff (for like setting imagine up) ie...render size, stuff like that....but it also had a place for where the path for the Imagine.pic should
be....so I typed the path in there also....but still no change...???

anybody have any ideas.....(excluding danimal that is...)   :)


##

Subject: Hi, here I am...
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:17:36 +0200
From: ""Imagine a life without Imagine...  A True Nightmare!!!!!"" <[e-mail]>

Hi to everybody on this maillist,

My name is Carsten Berggreen, I live in Denmark and have been using Imagine
for about 1 1/2 years now...

I have an 'old' Amiga 500, with 1meg chip, 1.5meg Fake Fast and a SLOOOOW 68000
(eventhough I use a 'Force the screen to blank' while I'm tracing)
And just to make it even more pitty, I have 2 disk drives and NO HARDDISK!!!!

My equipment isn't the best, okay I'll admit that... &:-(
Perhaps I'm going to buy a BIG one later this very year... (A4000-5000-6000?)

But who cares, I can trace while I'm sleeping and while I'm educating,
eventhough it isn't the biggest objects that I can have in my memory...


Now, to everybody who reads this:

A month ago I made this little cute space vessel(or what ever it was?)
I and liked it so much that I wanted to put some windows onto it...

Hmmm great! Think of my space ship, as enterprise(Star-Trek)
and ALL those nice small windows... Hmmm how could I make them with my little
computer... Hmm AAAHHH!!! Brush mapping...
Yep, reboot, deluxe paint, draw some small yellow windows in a brush...

Okay, Imagine back, wrap brush, trace... result: SUCKS!!!!

Bright yellow windows with SHADOWS!!! HOW THE .... DO I FIX THAT ONE...?

As you probarbly can understand, I like to make large scaled objects, or at
least I like to think of them as big, but until I'll get something bigger
they'll stay less detailed... I do NOT like the solution of making a seperate
object which is the windows, since it will consist of more than 500 windows and
with at least 2 faces per window that's 1000 faces just for the windows...&:-(

Well I have to catch a bus home now... so bye...

Signed Berggreen &:-)


##

Subject: Re: IBM PC is HERE...
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 09:48:02 EDT
From: David Watters <[e-mail]>

> Subject: IBM PC is HERE...
...
>Hi....the Ibm version of Imagine came in today...and........
>AND.... not to be flaming anyone....but the disk it came on said for the
>AMIGA....and the little addendum also said that the <new> buyers of Imagine for
>the pc would also be getting the amiga manual...<----????

YES, YES, YES!!!  Justice atlast!!!!!!
This, however, doesn't come close to making up for all the times I have
purchased Amiga software that came with an IBM manual with IBM keyboard
maps, etc.!!!

> oh I am using stacker also...(if it matters)?

Probably matters.  Stacker is just like the PC market in general, one big
kludge!

David
Watters

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993


##

Subject: Re: Seeking Imagine object - monitor
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:11:06 -0400
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

>Anybody have an Imagine object for a Commodore monitor?  Please
>upload it to wuarchive (and drop me a note)!

In Turbo Silver format I have a complete Amiga 1000: computer, keyboard,
1080 monitor, external floppy drive, mouse, cables.  It's all in a thousand
pieces (objects are named in French), so you need to load them all to
assemble the final result.  It's all very nicely detailed.

I will make an effort to send this to wuarchive and let all of you know
when I've done this and where exactly you can find it.  It will likely be a
few days before I get around to it.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Hi, here I am...
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:20:18 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>Okay, Imagine back, wrap brush, trace... result: SUCKS!!!!
>
>Bright yellow windows with SHADOWS!!! HOW THE .... DO I FIX THAT ONE...?
>
>As you probarbly can understand, I like to make large scaled objects, or at
>least I like to think of them as big, but until I'll get something bigger
>they'll stay less detailed... I do NOT like the solution of making a seperate
>object which is the windows, since it will consist of more than 500 windows and
>with at least 2 faces per window that's 1000 faces just for the windows...&:-(
>
>Well I have to catch a bus home now... so bye...
>
>Signed Berggreen &:-)
>

    I have done this the hard way.....tons of little windows but
here is an idea which I'm not sure will work.

    Make a larger size copy of your image, not too much larger, but
just a little, now make your window picture black and white for a
transpanecy map, and first map the color yellow lights, then do the
transparency with max value =240 (for Dpaint).  You "should" end up with
just lights and will of course save on making them sep.

    Later



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: UNDERSTANDING IMAGINE 2.0
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 17:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edward d Nobles <[e-mail]>

Please tell me where (how) I can purchase a copy of UNDERSTANDING IMAGINE 2.0
by: Steve Worley

Local bookstore says that can't find it to order it.


Most Thanks

Jim Nobles


##

Subject: Re: Understanding Imagine 2.0
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:09:28 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

Edward Nobles asks where to get the book Undertanding Imagine 2.0.

The book has been tough to get the last few months since I was not going
to reprint UI 2.0 since Imagine 3.0 was supposed to be out in January
of this year... alas, I shouldn't have made that assumption: my best
information is that Imagine 3.0 hasn't even been started to be written
yet and I wouldn't expect it for six months to a year.

Anyway, I reprinted UI 2.0 last month and it should be much easier to find.
Your local Amiga dealer should have it, or you can call just about any
mail order dealer like Safe Harbor.  Devware has them in stock too, I know.
Anyway, it  shouldn't be too hard to find now if you try mail order places.

-Steve
[e-mail]


##

Subject: ImaginePC
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 19:50:07 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    Well!  I installed I-PC today.  Amazing.....looks exactly like
the Amiga counterpart.  It also seems a bit faster on my 486DX-33 than
on my A3000.  I haven't really had a chance to mess with it too much,
but I have gotten it working.

    It seems to only render to Imagine formats, and in TIFF
format.....though they say future versions will have more.  Also, they
say it can't do FLC animations yet...though you can make the standard
wireframes.  I haven't tried my version yet to see if this has been
added.  Hopefully, I do some test comparisons for time and what not
later.

    Anyone else out there have it yet?  What do you think?



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: Re: IMAGINE PC
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 8:29:14 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)

> well I checked the imagine.pic....and it is there.....but something I
> noticed was that there was imagine.cfg file there....when I looked at it
> it had some info stuff (for like setting imagine up) ie...render size, stuff like that....but it also had a place for where the path for the Imagine.pic should
> be....so I typed the path in there also....but still no change...???
>
> anybody have any ideas.....(excluding danimal that is...)   :)

Here's a further followup from CompuServe:

->#: 29208 S8/Rendering
->    19-Apr-93  20:54:32
->Sb: #29152-IMAGINE for the PC.
->Fm: IMPULSE 76004,1767
->To: Dave Alex 76166,742
->
->Dave, please check the Impulse section of the AmigaVendor forum.
->We've been posting messages troubleshooting users' problems with
->the new program over there.
->
->To summarize: disks shipped between 4/12 and 4/15 have problems
->with QEMM and DOS 6.0.  If you need to run under DOS 6.0, contact Impulse
->for a replacement disk.
->
->To diagnose your problems with the program, try using a clean boot disk
->which loads your mouse driver, DOS' EMM386.exe and your VESA driver.  We
->heard of one user who had to do a CLS command prior to running the program
->on a Fahrenheit 1280 video card.
->
->Let me know if I may be of any further assistance.
->--Rick Rodriguez

Steve
PS.  Anyone else wishing to sign up for CompuServe, just send me e-mail.
To those of you who already sent mail, I sent responses this morning.


##

Subject: Re: 3D-trees to use in IMAGINE
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 07:29:05 EST
From: [e-mail] ()

VERTEX is available on BIX ... its still disabled but a working version is
available for about $40 I think. Its a modeler similar in some ways to Im
a cross between Pixel3dPro and Imagine (in appearance that is). I
fooled with it some time ago and found it quite a good modeler. I would UL it
but I dont know whre I put it. Try BIX-DIRECT 617-491-5410.
BOOM


##

Subject: Ideas for the Imagine-editors...
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 14:44:53 +0200
From: ""Imagine a life without Imagine...  A True Nightmare!!!!!"" <[e-mail]>

Hi everybody,

First of all I would like to give a little hint to people like me,
(If I isn't the only one that is...) that is people with a SLOW computer...

The nice look with 16 colors in hires, which Impulse has choosen is great,
BUT it slows you computer down dramaticly!!!!
(all the DMA Graphic Cycles are taken from your processor AND you BLITTER!!!!
That's also why an A3000 still is faster with only 1 bitplane on the screen.

An easy solution to this problem is to buy one of the new A1200 or A4000, but
a little too expensive (at this moment, anyway!)

A cheap solution is to do like me, simply get a REAL screen blanker, which
only does one thing: blank the screen and uses as little cpu time as possible,
not one of those flashy ones available from most PD-bases...

I'm using a screen blanker called 'James the butler' made by a friend of mine,
it works! But it's also under developing, so it isn't error free YET! &:-(

Still it has a few really useable features like Force-screen-to-blank and
1 bitplane mode, activated with my RAT-button(I have 3 buttons on my mouse,
and being a little MAD I named the middle one, the RAT button.. silly isn't it?)

Enough about that, now to the really stuff:

1:
Inside the cycle-editor I certainly could use the possibility to 'Transform' an
object to a precise location, instead of jamming around with spin and rotate.
I can see why those functions are there, but I can't see why the transform isn't


2: (also cycle editor)
Here is a 'NICE' one to make... hehe! How about making some kind of pull/push
function, which would act like a 'Freeze length of axis on objects+move', then
you could really begin to make some human-movements... Imagine if you would
create a walking man, and when you pulled/moved one of his feets, you could
only pull it inside a certain range from the leg(that range is the fix'ed axis)

Hmm? would that be a hard one to do, Impulse? It would be a great help...

3:
I don't know if this one is an old idea since I'm new here... but anyway...
how about a collision dectection possibility (just inside the stage editor?)

4:
I could (sometimes) use the option to actual see my dots in the 3D view in the
editors (of cause they shouldn't be traced, but only be inside the editor
while creating an object... that would be nice, I think!


Does anybody agree with me? or am I just alone with these 'new' ideas?


Greetings to the people at Impulse, nice work you've done so far...
                         keep going!!!!  &:-)



I'll certainly be back with more... once I've come up with some more ideas...

Especially for the cycle editor, which REALLY need some more features...
I think...  &:-)



            That's it, and that's that!

        About the Amiga: You can't beat the feeling!

            Signed Berggreen - Denmark


##

Subject: Re: Seeking Imagine object - monitor
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 11:32:48 MET
From: [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)

Hello "Andrew Church",
On 18 APR 1993 18:05:00 you said regarding Re: Seeking Imagine object - monitor:

> >Anybody have an Imagine object for a Commodore monitor?  Please
> >upload it to wuarchive (and drop me a note)!

I know of one. Unfortunately I don't have FTP access, so you'll
have to come an get it at a FidoNet BBS called the 'MotherShip
Connection' (v32bis/v42bis | [phone]) over here in the
Netherlands. You can either FileRequest it or log in... Here's
the info on all Amiga related stuff available there...

1950.LHA         57k 30-Apr-92 The C= A1950 monitor
A2000.LZH        10k 22-Jul-92 Amiga 2000 Imagine object
A3002-IM.LHA     80k 14-Jun-92 A3000 + keyboard..
AMIGA1000.LHA   282k 30-Apr-92 A1000

Hope this helps...

CYa, Paul
--
-Everyone needs belief in something. I believe I'll have another
 beer.
--
Paul Kolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:284/112.1 Paul Kolenbrander
NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Voice: [phone] | Timezone:GMT+1 | Fax: [phone]


##

Subject: Imagine PC on DOS 6.0
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 09:28:44 PDT
From: Fixed in Previous Release... <[e-mail]>

    Hello all,

    Having received my Imagine PC copy last night I eagerly installed it
and planned on a long night of seeing how it worked on the PC ( I have had
Imagine on the Amiga a really long time), however...

    Upon typing imagine the hd light flashed a bit and nothing happened,
so instead I spent a long fruitless night of trying lots of different stuff
to try and make it work.

    I tried it on a couple of PC's at the office today and found that it
does work as it turns out on DOS V5 and not DOS V6.

    So a quick call to Impulse learned that the distributed version will
not work under DOS V6 (something about allocating memory - it uses EMS by the
way so you cannot use NOEMS on that 386emm config line).  Also there appears
to be a problem in using QEMM so they are telling people to use 386emm
instead.

    For those using DOS V6 (or want/plan to) call Impluse and have your
invoice # (from the sheet in the shipment) ready and they will send you out
a new copy that is supposed to work under V6 (now where did I put that sheet).

    Hope this save some of you some time and frustration.

    wayne oakley


##

Subject: Re:  IBM PC is HERE...
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 00:03:59 -0600
From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>

Do you know how much IMAGINE sells for on the PC?

How does it compare with the price for the Amiga?

And how much does it cost for both?

Thanks


##

Subject: Re: Re: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 00:23:44 -0600
From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>

I know this is off the subject but I think it would help a lot of the
Imagine users and AMiga users alike to know this. I was playing around
tonight on my copy of the Public Domain SHELL utility C-Shell 5.19.
I stumbled on something that I think is pretty revolutionary.
Some of you may already know this but others may not.
CSHell 5.19 supports Object oriented file handling. What this
means is that you can program aliases to work on any file by
having cshell make a class out of it. I was amazed becuase this
is a lot how you arrange things when you write programs in C++.
I haven't really done any C++ programming yet, but I have gone over the
syntax and understand the powers of C++. But anyways, just
to give you an example, here is a set of classes I made
for a all-purpose alias called "viewit"

    class gif suff=.gif actions view="hamgif"
    class iffs offs=8,494C424D424D suff=.iff suff=.pic suff=.ilbm actions view="mostra"
    class zoo suff=.zoo actions view="zoo l"
    class lha suff=.lha actions view="lz l"
    class text chars suff=.txt actions view="run qview"
    alias viewit "action view"

the way to read this is there is a class named <name here>
that has these attributes, if the attributes are true to the file
being compared and, the actions to take if the action is <action name>
then perform the specified command or set of commands.
You see how this is useful??? Once you have programmed your
shel to recognize these formats all you have to do is
say "viewit <file>" and you no longer have to figure out what
file format the file is in and you can automate the computer in
such a way that it performs all the tasks required to view,
extract, run, whatever. I think the kinds of actions you can perform
are whatever you want... YOu can make them up as you go along.

I'm now thinking of other ways this can be used.. Can you imagine
making a directory utility based on CSHell that will treat
every file as an object. Then you no longer have to specify what
command to view the file.. You could just highlite the file on
the directory utility and press the view button.

Anyways.. see ya guys...


##

Subject: Imagine project ????
Date:     Wed, 21 Apr 1993 23:43:31 +0200
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

I read something about a big Imagine Project showing a scene
Joe's Diner with many objects created by maillist members.
Well I want to do an object. But don't know which one
are free. So please inform me of the objects left to be done
(something not too complicated would be fine :-) )

Thanks
Hannes


##

Subject: Imagine PC query
Date:     Mon, 19 Apr 1993 18:27:58 -0400
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

What are the system limitations of Imagine PC?  Can it run under windows?
How about the speed?

Jason K.
        __                  __       __
       /     /  __ _     __ / o_    /     __ _ __ __  o       _
      /   \//\ /_////| //_// //    /- \/ /_////_///  //\ /| //
     /  __/ \/ \ / / |/ \ /\/ \   /__ /\/  /  \  \\\/ \// |/ \
     \___________________________________________//__________/


##

Subject: Re: Ideas for the Imagine-editors...
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 08:30:43 +0200
From: ""Imagine a life without Imagine...  A True Nightmare!!!!!"" <[e-mail]>

Hi Dennis, thanks for your reply...

Well, you've asked about saving rendering time?

I can't give you any amount, because that varies from program to program...

But you can try it by going to your workbench screen after you've started
the tracing(this holds for Imagine, since they use 16 colors inside the editor)

Try it, if it doesn't work, then try to contact me, and I'll see if I can work
out and idea for you... &:-)

(By the way, forget about Real 3D, it can't make REAL surfaces...)

Signed Berggreen

---------------------------------------------------------------------
- Address: Carsten Berggreen         E-mail: [e-mail] -
-          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
---------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: The IML FAQ
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 12:25:07 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)

+======================================================================+
|                         Imagine Mailing List                         |
|                      FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS                      |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                             Compiled By                              |
|                           Michael B. Comet                           |
|                              Steve Mund                              |
|                            Mark Oldfield                             |
|                             Dave Wickard                             |
+======================================================================+

        This is the Frequently Asked Questions posting for the Imagine
Mailing list.  This posting is sent every so often to answer general
questions that users of the 3D rendering software, Imagine by Impulse
Inc. may have.  It is aimed toward all users, especially newcomers to
the program.

        As you may have noticed, there are now 4 of us working on the
FAQ.  I must say, a big thank you to all the others without whom, this
document would not have been able to grow.  Thank you!

        If you find any errors or have answers to other frequently asked
questions that you would like to have included in this posting, please
send e-mail to: [e-mail] (FAQ List) with a subject of
"Re: IML-FAQ" or something like that.  Thank you.

        - Mike C.

========================================================================

Last Update   : April 19, 1993 Monday
Issue Number  : 2
What's New    : Miscellaneous fixes of typographical errors
                15-31 - (see topics below)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTENTS:
=========

     1] Imagine related: References/Help Books/Magzines/ftp sites.
         2] How do I reach Impulse?
         3] What is the Imagine Mailing List and how to get it?
     4] Why do objects render fine in Scanline, but disappear in
        Trace?
         5] List of common Index of Refractions
         6] How do I brushmap a ground plane?
         7] How do I make glass?
         8] The Slice command doesn't work or gives me errors.
         9] What the heck is BTW, IMO and other weird abbreviations...
        10] How do I use the Grow Effect?
        11] How do I use the Tumble Effect?
        12] Even though I move an Object/Camera/Light to a new
        POSITION/ALIGNMENT/SIZE in the STAGE editor, Imagine seems
        to 'forget' what I did!
        13] When I move a Tracked Camera in the STAGE editor, it doesn't
           realign and draw the Perspective view correctly!
    14] I have a problem with Filtered objects and the Global
        Backdrop!
        15] Rendering and refresh times are MUCH too slow, even with an
            accelerator. Are there any Basic tricks or hints to help?
        16] My animation frames look fine, but when animated, they have
            the "crawly" effect.
        17] How can I figure out pixel aspect for a given resolution?
        18] Is there any particular format that Imagine prefers?  Ham?
            32 Color?  EHB?  24 bit 1000 x 1000?
        19] How long will before my renderings aren't ugly anymore?
    20] How long should it take to do a full trace picture with
        perhaps one transparent glass on a Amiga 3000/25? Is 4.5 hrs
        too much?
    21] How do I make "metals" and what are some good gold
        attributes?
    22] I made this animation sequence in the Cycle editor, but when
        I set it up in the stage/action editors, the motion of the
        overall object isn't there!
        23] After a Forms Editor object is loaded into the Detail Editor
           and manipulated, it won't reload into the Forms Editor.
    24] How do you make mirrors?
    25] How can I make a room so that the walls don't have cracks?
    26] When making a disco ball effect, will a SPHERICAL light set
        at 255 be bright enough to cause visible spots on the
        surfaces in a scene?
    27] When I select a group of points in the DETAIL editor, all I
        can do is drag them...not ROTATE or SCALE interactively.
    28] How do you get something to roll (at the right speed!) while
        following a path?
    29] What situations, parameters, attribute values, etc. require
        the most trace rendering time?
    30] How do I get rid of the "Jaggies?"
    31] When I increase the number of frames in an animation I find
        my scene gets mangled in the first frame.  Why?

   CLOSING] Closing statements and Disclaimer

========================================================================

1] Imagine related: References/Help Books/Magzines/ftp sites.

  REFERENCES AND HELP BOOKS:

    "Imagine 2.0 User Manual", Impulse Inc, 1992.
                   (Yes....read the manual!)

    "The Imagine Companion", David Duberman, Motion Blur Publishing,
         1991

    "Understanding Imagine 2.0", Steven Worley, Apex Software
         Publishing, 1992.

  MAGAZINES:

    These are some good graphics magazines, most of which focus on the
Amiga computer.  If anyone has some other suggestions please post them
to the FAQ list!

    "Computer Graphics World"
    P.O Box 122
    Tulsa, OK 74101-9845
    (800) 443 - 6632
    (918) 835 - 3161 ext. 400
    (918) 831 - 9497 (FAX)
        (A general computer graphics magazine focusing on the
    latest technology from PC's to SGI's)

    "Amiga World"
    P.O Box 595
    Mt Morris, IL 61054-7900
    (800) 827 - 0877
    (815) 734 - 1109
        (A general Amiga computer magazine, focusing on both
    hardware, software, utilities and graphics)

    "Amiga Video/Graphics Magazine"  (formerly AVID)
    365 Victor Street
    Suite "H"
    Salinas, CA 93907
    (408) 758 - 9386
    (408) 758 - 1744 (FAX)
        (A general Amiga computer magazine, focusing on both
    hardware, software, utilities and graphics)

    "Video Toaster User"
    21611 Stevens Creek Blvd.
    Cupertino, CA 95014
    (800) 322 - 2834
        (A magazine focusing specifically on NewTeks Video
    Toaster device.  Nothing related to Imagine, but some more neat
    pictures to look at!)

  FTP SITES:

    There is now a new ftp site set up for Imagine related items
including pictures, animations, tutorials, objects, and help files such
as previous postings from the list, and this FAQ at:

    wuarchive.wustl.edu
    in the  /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine  directory.

        Under this directory are the following sub-directories:
        art
        archive
        anims
        objects

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2] How do I reach Impulse?

    Impulse Inc.
    8416 Xerxes ave. North
    Brooklyn Park, Minnesota 55444
    USA

    [phone]
    [phone]
    FAX: [phone]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

3] What is the Imagine Mailing List and how to get it

    (From the Imagine Mailing List Sysop, Dave Wickard)

        The Imagine Mailing List is a wide variety of Amiga computer
artists sharing friendship and knowledge. The main thrust of the List is
the Imagine renderer. Subjects discussed though have varied widely.
There arediscussions of Imagine and it's competitors, Imagine wish
lists for future versions, 3D rendering principles in general, single
frame recording techniques and many more.

        With first day users thru battled scarred veterans  :-)  there
is someone at your level of knowledge on the List. We are always glad to
see questions from every level of user. So often a simple and seemingly
embarrassingly easy question will lead to an interesting comment on a
related topic.

    New products, both hardware AND software, are discussed as to their
relationship with Imagine and Amiga 3D rendering.

    Names of Amiga luminaries dot the list, and often join in to lend
their insights without the usual "noise" of a USENET newsgroup.

    There are over 400 individual sites receiving the Imagine Mailing
List, and they include many networks, BBS systems, user groups, and
individual computer artists from literally around the globe.  We share
one thing.  Interest in each other's work with Imagine.

    YOU can get the Imagine Mailing List. All you need is access to
Internet mail. Simply mail to the following address:

         [e-mail]

and in your subject line, enter the word "subscribe".

    If you are reading this from a Commercial System, ask the
Amiga Coordinator to set up an Imagine Mailing List area that
everyone can read.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

4] Why do objects render fine in Scanline, but disappear in Trace?

    There are 2 possible causes for this.
         1) You are running out of RAM
         2) You objects are outside of the World Boundary

    To check #1 (for the Amiga), pull down The Project editor after you
start a render during the initialization phase.  Click once on the
Workbench backdrop and you should see how much RAM you have on the top
of the screen.  As Imagine starts to render, this will decrease.  If it
becomes close to 0, chances are, that's your problem.  To solve that,
buy more RAM.

    The other possibility is that the objects are outside of the world
boundary.  The world boundary is basically a box in which your objects
are placed.  When you enter the STAGE editor, you are placing objects in
this "virtual box" whose center is 0,0,0.

    When you Trace, Imagine clips ALL objects that fall outside of the
box.  The size of the world boundary is set in the ACTION editor.  In
this editor, there should be an item named GLOBALS.  Whatever numbers
are set in the SIZE timeline becomes the size of the box so that it lies
from +/- Value for X,Y and Z.  The default is no information present,
which Imagine assumes is +/- 1024 units for all 3 coordinates.

        Thus to fix this problem you can:
         1) Scale your entire scene to fit inside the +/- 1024 size
            boundary
         2) Add a size line and set the X,Y,Z to the values you need
            (This can be found by using "coordinates" in the STAGE
            editor and moving the cursor around to find the values)
         3) Add a size line and set the X,Y,Z sizes to 0,0,0.  This will
           force Imagine to calculate the world size for ALL frames
            based on where objects are for the FIRST frame.  This is
            important since if your objects move farther out during
            subsequent frames, you will have to set the size manually
            (see 2 above) since it will now be outside the computed
            boundary, and thus clipped.

    Note: The world boundary has no effect in Scanline rendering.
    Note: Setting the World Size to 0,0,0 regardless of problems will
          usually DECREASE Trace times!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

5] List of common Index of Refractions

         (All items except Vacuum are in alphabetical order)
         (STP = Standard Temperature and Pressure)

         MATERIAL                      Index
         -------------------------------------
         Vacuum ...................... 1.00000 (exactly)

         Air (STP).................... 1.00029
         Acetone ..................... 1.36
         Alcohol ..................... 1.329
         Amorphous Selenium .......... 2.92
         Calspar1 .................... 1.66
         Calspar2 .................... 1.486
         Carbon Disulfide ............ 1.63
         Chromium Oxide .............. 2.705
         Copper Oxide ................ 2.705
         Crown Glass ................. 1.52
         Crystal ..................... 2.00
         Diamond ..................... 2.417
         Emerald ..................... 1.57
         Ethyl Alcohol ............... 1.36
         Flourite .................... 1.434
         Fused Quartz ................ 1.46
         Heaviest Flint Glass ........ 1.89
         Heavy Flint Glass ........... 1.65
         Glass ....................... 1.5
         Ice ......................... 1.309
         Iodine Crystal .............. 3.34
         Lapis Lazuli ................ 1.61
         Light Flint Glass ........... 1.575
         Liquid Carbon Dioxide ....... 1.20
         Polystyrene ................. 1.55
         Quartz 1 .................... 1.644
         Quartz 2 .................... 1.553
         Ruby ........................ 1.77
         Sapphire .................... 1.77
         Sodium Chloride (Salt) 1 .... 1.544
         Sodium Chloride (Salt) 2 .... 1.644
         Sugar Solution (30%) ........ 1.38
         Sugar Solution (80%) ........ 1.49
         Topaz ....................... 1.61
         Water (20 C) ................ 1.333
         Zinc Crown Glass ............ 1.517

------------------------------------------------------------------------

6] How do I brushmap a ground plane?

    The problem with brushmapping a ground plane is that the ground
itself is off 90 degrees in relation to its' axis for proper brush
placement.  (Add a primitive plane, a ground and compare them).  The
following will properly set a ground wrap:

         1) Add a ground object, select it, go into attributes, select a
           brush to use.
         2) You will now be in a requestor for the type of brushmap and
            placement etc...
         3) Select TRANSFORM AXIS
         4) Click on ALIGNMENT and set X = -90.  Leave Y and Z at 0
         5) Click on SIZE and leave X = +640.  Set Y = +2, Z = +400
         6) Click on POSITION and Leave X = -320, Y = -200. Set Z = +1
         7) Click on PERFORM.
         8) If you want the brushmap to repeat forever click REPEAT.
         9) Click OKAY.

        Your brushmap will now be placed correctly.  You can of course
resize it on the X/Z axis if you wish for scaling purposes.

        Basically step 4 re-rotated the brush axis properly and 5 and 6
fixed the size and position which Imagine screws up since it thinks it's
brushmapping on the other axis.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

7] How do I make glass?

        You can use the following Attribute setting for a default glass:

                   RED  GREEN  BLUE   VALUE
    COLOR          0    0      0      *
    REFLECT        0    0      0      *
    FILTER         255  255    255    *
    SPECULAR       255  255    255    *
    DITHERING      *    *      *      255
    HARDNESS       *    *      *      255
    ROUGHNESS      *    *      *      0
    SHININESS      *    *      *      0     (Very important see below!)

    PHONG = ON
    INDEX = 1.50
    FOG LENGTH = 0.00

    This should give you glass.

    One thing many people get confused by is:

         1) Shininess must be set to ZERO.  If you set this to anything
            but 0, the FILTER setting will not work.  This is just the
            way Imagine works since FILTER usage assumes shininess
            automatically.
         2) No background.  To get glass, you need surroundings.  If you
            render a glass cup on a pure black screen, you'll probably
            just see the highlights.  Adding global colors for Scanline
            and Ray Trace will give your object something to refract.
         3) Ray Trace.  To get refraction of surrounding objects
            exactly, you need to Trace, though scanline WILL approximate
            refractivity.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

8] The Slice command doesn't work or gives me errors.

    Due to the complexity of doing a 3D slice, sometimes Imagine gives
errors, or actually crashes during this operation.

    Things to do if you plan on using this function are:

         1) Save _ALL_ currently loaded object BEFORE trying to slice.
         2) If you get an error, move one of the objects slightly and
            try again.  Moving one of them may yield a working slice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

9] What the heck is BTW, IMO and other weird abbreviations...

    BTW is an abbreviation for "By The Way".
    IMO is an abbreviation for "In My Opinion"
    IMHO is an abbreviation for "In My Humble Opinion"
    IML is an abbreviation for "Imagine Mailing List"
    :) is a sideways smiley face
    :( is a sideways frowny face
    ;) is a winking-eye face
    :| etc...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

10] How do I use the Grow Effect?

        To use the grow effect, create an object in the DETAIL editor
that you wish to have 'extrude' over time.  Create a spline path as
normal in the detail editor.  This will be the path the object extrudes
along during the animation.

    GROUP (not join) the object with the PATH AS THE PARENT.  If you do
not make the path the parent, it will not work.  To do this, select the
path, then hold shift and select the object, then select group.  Save
your GROUP for loading in the animation.

    Finally, add the effect in the ACTION editor for the grouped object.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

11] How do I use the Tumble Effect?

    The tumble effect is used to tumble 1 or more objects during an
animation.  To tumble an object, create your object or objects in the
DETAIL editor.  Still in the detail editor add an axis.

        Group (not join) the AXIS to all the objects you want to tumble
with the AXIS AS THE PARENT.  Then load the GROUP into the STAGE/ACTION
editor and add the effect as normal.

    NOTE: The reason for the null object (axis) as parent is that
Imagine does not TUMBLE the PARENT, just the children.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

12] Even though I move an Object/Camera/Light to a new
    POSITION/ALIGNMENT/SIZE in the STAGE editor, Imagine seems to
   'forget' what I did!

    All objects must have timelines split wherever there is a change in
position, alignment or size.  If you do not set this up, Imagine will
forget the changes no matter what.

    Rather than going back and forth to the ACTION editor and adding
timelines, you can have Imagine automatically create the timelines
properly so everything tweens as normal.  There are the "Position Bar",
"Alignment Bar" and "Size Bar" commands under the OBJECT menu in the
STAGE editor.

    So, if you have just gone to a frame and are making a new POSITION,
ALIGNMENT or SIZE for an object (or camera or light) to tween to, press
RIGHT AMIGA and 7/8/9 respectively.  Or use the respective bar commands
from the OBJECT menu.  This will extend or put a 'split' in the timeline
for you (you can check this in the ACTION editor).  Also, don't forget
to "Save Changes"if you want to keep the motion!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

13] When I move a tracked Camera in the STAGE editor, it doesn't realign
   and draw the Perspective view correctly!

    If you have Imagine 2.0 or higher, press RIGHT AMIGA and the K key
together, or select "Camera (Re)track" from the OBJECT menu.  This will
make the camera repoint to the track from the new position and will
redraw the perspective view.

        If you have an older version of Imagine (or if you just want to)
you can press RIGHT AMIGA and the C key or select "Goto" from the FRAME
menu.  Go to the current frame you are already on which will cause
imagine to redraw everything.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

14] I have a problem with Filtered objects and the Global Backdrop!

        For some reason, clear or glass like objects will not be clear
when used with a backdrop.  To get around this render with "genlock sky"
and then use an image processing program to composite the rendered image
onto the background pic for each frame.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

15] My rendering times and even my refresh times in the editors are
    much MUCH too slow, even with an accelerator. Is there any
    basic tricks or hints that are often overlooked that might help
    me out?"

        Always be sure to MERGE your objects. This eliminates multiple
faces, points and lines. Some objects have a VERY large number of these
and it can slow your times down by up to 1/2!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

16] I have created an animation (Hurrah!) and when I look at each of
    the individual frames, they look just as I thought they might.
    However, when I animate them, anywhere I have applied the
    "roughness" parameter, surfaces look animated...with lots of
    "crawling" effect on them. What gives?

        Roughness should NOT be used on objects that will be animated.
(Unless of course, the "crawley" effect is what you're after). This is
caused by a bug in the roughness algorithm. One of the main work-arounds
suggested, is by using a very small or fine bump-map. Another work-
around is to create a DPaint (or for that matter ANY IFF) multi-gray
shaded screen and apply it as an altitude map.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

17] How do I figure out the pixel aspect for a certain resolution
    display?  I am rendering a picture to be displayed on a macII
    at 1024x768.  Does anyone know the formula or is it device
    dependent?

        Pixel aspect ratio depends both on the aspect ratio of the
display device (your monitor) and the resolution that fits onto that
screen. Most monitors use a 4 x 3 aspect ratio so that to achieve square
1:1 pixels, the resolution must also be 4:3. 1024 x 768 will achieve
this as well as 640 x 480. The Amiga typically uses a non-square aspect
ratio of about 1.2:1 such as 320 x 200, 640 x 400, 768 x 480, etc. So
the pixel ratio can be found using...

  (horiz res. / horiz display size) : (vert res. / vert display size)
If your monitor has a 4:3 aspect, you should have 1:1 pixels.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

18] Is there any particular format that Imagine prefers?  Ham?
    32 Color?  EHB?  24 bit 1000 x 1000?

        The best is a 24-bit image, of course. Anything works, but the
color range of a 24-bit will beat the tar out of a 16 color any day.
Exceptions would be objects with a few discrete colors, like a red,
white, and blue flag. Then a 24-bit and a 4 color image are equal in
quality. Note that Imagine converts them all to 24-bit internally,
though- the memory goes down equally for a 100 by 100 4-color as it does
for a 100 by 100 24-bit.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

19] When does one get good enough so that they don't render ugly
    pictures!


        Practice with a simple objects (to cut down trace time) over and
over and over.  Varying lighting & color etc.  This will allow you to
get the effect you want which is only a technical problem.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

20] I have a Amiga 3000/25.  How long should it take to do a full
    trace picture with perhaps one transparent (nearly) glass?
    Does 4.5 hours sound reasonable to you?  I am running the
    floating Point version of Imagine.

        The floating point version of Imagine uses inline floating point
code for maximum speed.  It does not use the libraries.  I suspect that
the non-FP version uses the libraries, just in case. You can probably
SPEED UP your trace time SIGNIFICANTLY by scaling up the whole scene in
the stage editor (see question 4 above!). A trace time of 4.5 hours on a
3000/25 definitely a "wee bit" on the high side for a scene as simple as
you describe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

21] How do I make "metals" and what are some good gold attributes?

        One thing you can do to make your objects look more like metal
is to give them a specular setting close to the main color of the
object, but higher in intensity.  One mistake is to often make the
specular a pure white.  This makes objects look more like plastic than
metal.  For example, if you are trying to make gold, don't make the
specular pure white, but try a bright yellow or yellow/orange creame
color.

        Another problem is that many metals reflect the world.  For
example a chrome ball is pretty much just a shiny mirror.  Thus, if you
want to make realistic metals you will need to at least simulate
reflection. This can be done by adding a global reflect map, doing a
true ray trace or even just setting sky colors in the stage editor.


        You can use the following Attribute setting for a default gold:

                       RED  GREEN  BLUE   VALUE
        COLOR          205  205    80     *
        REFLECT        180  160    125    *
        FILTER         0    0      0      *
        SPECULAR       255  255    160    *
        DITHERING      *    *      *      255
        HARDNESS       *    *      *      255
        ROUGHNESS      *    *      *      0
        SHININESS      *    *      *      0

        PHONG = ON
        INDEX = 1.00
        FOG LENGTH = 0.00

        This should give you something close to gold.  Note that the
reflect values are fairly high.  You may wish to lower them to see how
it would look if you don't have anything to reflect etc...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

22] I made this really great animation sequence in the cycle editor,
    but when I set it up in the stage/action editors, the motion of
    the overall object isn't there!

        When using the cycle editor, Imagine only remembers changes in
size, position, and so on in relation to the main parent.  Thus, if you
make a change to the parent object, it gets forgotten.  What this means
is if you make a nifty robot jumping cycle, and make it in the cycle
editor so the robot actually move up etc... all that will be remembered
is the changes to the legs, arms and anything OFF of the PARENT.  The
overall rotations and movements to the main object will be gone.

        Two solutions exist.  One is to simply make those changes in
the stage editor each time you need to.  The second is to group a plain
axis before you start to your object.  (ie: Make the parent have a Null
link).  Then, you can rotate everything by rotating the main child
grouped right under this null axis.  This way you aren't moving the
"parent", and everything will be remembered.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

23] I was working in the forms editor on an object, and loaded it
    into the detail editor for modification.  However, I can't seem
    to be able to get it back into the forms editor!  Help!

        Simply put, you cannot load objects saved from the detail editor
back into the forms editor.  The reason is the forms editor requires
a specified object structure which the detail does not.  Thus, saving
an object in the detail editor loses that information.

        When you work with the forms editor is recommended that you keep
a spare copy of the FORMS OBJECT saved separately from any detail
object. In this way you can then go back and make modifications in the
forms editor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

24] How do you make mirrors?

        The trick with mirrors (or especially chrome-like objects) is
not setting the attributes of the mirror correctly, but making sure that
the environment is set up so something will be reflected into the
camera.

        If a mirror is TOO reflective, the mirror can actually become
invisible!  This is because the mirror's own flat glass/metal flat
coloring is overwhelmed by all the reflected light.  You see a PERFECT
reflected image, so the object itself isn't shown.  This is especially
true with flat mirrors.

        Some attributes that give a nice mirror polish:

                       RED  GREEN  BLUE   VALUE
        COLOR          150  150    150    *
        REFLECT        200  200    210    *     (a bit of a blue tint)
        FILTER         0    0      0      *
        SPECULAR       255  255    255    *
        DITHERING      *    *      *      255
        HARDNESS       *    *      *      255
        ROUGHNESS      *    *      *      0
        SHININESS      *    *      *      0

        PHONG = ON
        INDEX = 1.00
        FOG LENGTH = 0.00

------------------------------------------------------------------------

25] I'm making a house which has many rooms and thus many walls, what is
   the best way of adding walls to the house so that they leave no
    cracks in the corners ?

        Three possible methods ---

        1. You can design your walls to be nice dimensions like 100
           or 1024 instead of 383.38. Place your axis at the corner
           of each wall. Then, to get seamless joints, use "snap to
           grid" in the project editor which will instantly adjust
           your walls to a perfect fit (If wall lengths are multiples
           of the grid line spacing).

        2. Create a 2D outline of the floorplan and extrude it up.
           Then simply pop a ceiling and floor on it.  The floorplan
           could be created either in Imagine or even a paint program
           and then auto-traced.  This means you will have to bust up
           a few polygons to add the windows and doors, but that is a
           minor task if you have a complex floorplan.

        3. A cheesy option is to make your walls too big. Then
          INTERSECT them. You get a mess BEHIND the wall, but if you
          don't look there, you'll never see it.


      wall 1           |
     ------------------+--
               \|/     |
      bug-eyed O.O     | wall 2
        monster v
                       |
                       |
      camera X

------------------------------------------------------------------------

26] When making a disco ball effect, will a SPHERICAL light set at 255
    be bright enough to cause visible spots on the surfaces in a scene?

        No, I bet that a light of 255 won't work too well. So crank
it up to 2000!  Lights are not limited to 255 (It is logical that lights
can be as bright as they want).  Values above 500 or so are pretty
severe; they cast strong shadows, like a very sunny day. Above 3000 or
so and it looks like you're world is lit by nuclear weapons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

27] When I select a group of points in the DETAIL editor, all I can do
    is drag them... it doesn't let me ROTATE or SCALE that clump of
    selected points.

        Imagine will let you move selected points, as well as rotate
and scale them. The limitation is that you cannot do this interactively
in Version 1.1 or earlier by using the mouse: The Transform command does
the manipulation. The picked points can be translated, scaled, rotated,
and positioned INDEPENDENTLY of the rest of the object. Rotations and
scalings all use the object's axis a reference point.  Absolute
positioning will move the FIRST point you pick to the location you
choose, and the rest of the picked points will be translated an equal
amount.  Interactive dragging is accomplished using the "drag points"
mode.

        Note: Version 2.0 and later support interactive point editing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

28] How do you get something to roll (at the right speed!) while
    following a path?

        Getting an object to spin (like a plane doing a barrel roll) is
easy- you align to path, then set Y rotation to be from 0 to 360 and it
will do a complete spin. This is not in the right direction for a
rolling ball, though. [Annoying feature- you can't say from 0 to 720 for
two spins, or 0 to 3600 for ten.] To get it to roll I created a second
path, which was basically a larger copy of the first, so the first path
was just inside of the second path. I had an axis (a track) follow this
new, outside path, then used "align to object" to make the sphere point
to the axis.

        Thus, as the ball moved along its path, one end (the positive Y
axis direction) was always pointed at right angles to the direction of
motion.  Is this clear? Now using the "initial Y angle" and "final Y
angle" I set them to 0 and 360 and it rotated as it rolled. As a special
effect, I raised the "track path" a little in the Z direction so the
sphere looks a little bit like a top rolling around, since the spin axis
was not horizontal anymore.

        An alternative would be to make a cycle object, rolling around
the X axis.  This is equally valid, but I did it this way first.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

29] What situations, parameters, attribute values, etc. require the most
   trace rendering time?

        The list is long: reflections and refractions increase rendering
time significantly, anti-aliasing (0 longest)-BTW this you must edit in
the .config file and resolve depth (also in .config file), number of
polygons, camera position (obliqueness), size of brush maps and even the
numerical entries of solid textures, resolution, display and render
modes etc etc.

        The big ones are refraction, edge level(antialiasing, reflection
(along with "depth") and #of polygons. Pretty well in that order too.
Remember that a higher refraction index is longer rendering time also.
And yes the scale of the object means a LOT. Imagine uses something
called an *Octree* to calculate the scene.  This is related to the world
size setting which is also discussed here in article number 4 above.
The difference can go from *hours* to minutes, so scale your scene by
the size you make your world.  You can select everything in the scene
(including camera and lights) and scale it interactively.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

30] How do I get rid of the "Jaggies?"

        The .config file for anti-aliasing defaults to 30. This is ok,
but not great. The best is 0 and final rendering should always be 0. So
you must edit this file every so often (before opening Im) or build a
front end on the work bench (requires programming knowledge, though).
BTW, the anti-aliasing is EDLE in .config file.

    {for those unfamiliar with the term jaggies - they refer to the
way lines drawn by computers tend to haved a jagged or stair stepped
appearance, instead of a smooth continuous line.  This is usually found
more in low resolution images.  - ed}

------------------------------------------------------------------------

31] I have found that after creating a scene in the Stage editor, and
    then deciding that I want an animation and adjusting the highest
    frame count, my scene gets mangled in the first frame.  Why?

        Well, it seems to me that this will happen if you don't split
your channel bar from the first frame (where you want stuff to be
exactly) to the second frame. I usually setup my scenes so that I have
the first frame all set as it should be and then I do my transformation
from frames 2-whatever. In this way, the first frame is ALWAYS where
it's suppose to be no matter what changes I make in the remaining
animation.  If you look at your channel it should have a break between
frames 1 and 2 and then be continuous (if that's the way your animation
works out) from 2 on.

========================================================================

CLOSING:
========

        Hopefully this document is useful to people out there.  Once
again, if there is anything you want added/changed/deleted, please
e-mail as listed at the top of the document.

    What follows is a small disclaimer so no one gets sued for
information that is accidentally incorrect or misleading.  (If you find
a mistake...please send e-mail so it can be fixed!).

      Disclaimer: There is no guarantee regarding any information
                  presented in this document.  The information may not
                  be correct, useful or helpful.  The reader accepts ALL
                 responsibility for actions pertaining to reading this
                  document, regardless of consequence.

========================================================================
END OF IML-FAQ


--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: Star Wars objects
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 12:40:45 -0400
From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>

Hi peoples
I've been trying like crazy to decode the Star Wars objects
on wuarchive, and haven't had a bit of luck.  Apparently, the
files are corrupt - all others I download work fine, I use
binary as my FTP mode, and I'm not having this problem with
any other files I get.

They're in .lha format, and they're at::
wuarchive.wustl.edu in the /systems/amiga/incoming/gfx directory.

Has anyone had any luck with these files??
If so, please let me know.
In that directory on wuarchive are an xwing, ywing, tie fighter,
Darth's tie fighter, imperial scout walker, and I think a couple
others that I can't remember offhand.  They're all in Imagine
format, and sound pretty nifty.  If anyone has these in a
usable format, please Email me.

Thanks in advance
Scott Krehbiel
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Imagine project ????
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 11:12:16 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    I read something about a big Imagine Project showing a scene
    Joe's Diner with many objects created by maillist members.
    Well I want to do an object. But don't know which one
    are free. So please inform me of the objects left to be done
    (something not too complicated would be fine :-) )

    Thanks
    Hannes
-------------------------------
I don't know either... Wish I did... I planned to take three objects.
I already have the plans made for them but right now I don't have the
time to work on them becuase it is the last two weeks of school.
After I graduate in May, I will have more time to spend on this
little project.

Thanks
Kiernan


##

Subject: Animated Brush maps
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 09:54:21 PDT
From: Louis D'Ambrosio <[e-mail]>

A quick question on how to use animated brushmaps on an
object.  I have 4 images that need to be sequenced between 8
frames.  At this time it maps them in this format:

   Frame   1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8
   Image   1    1    2    2    3    3    4    4

What i would like it to do is two sequences of the image map.
Like:

   Frame   1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8
   Image   1    2    3    4    1    2    3    4


Is there an easy way to do this? This is just a test run on
a big anim.  So breaking them up manually is not the answer.
Is there a setting in the action/cycler editor I'm not aware
of?


Thanks!


 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Name:  Louis D'Ambrosio       UUNET: [e-mail]   or  FIDO: 1:102/335
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sysop of:  Amiga Artists Club & BBS - 3-16.8kb - 24 hrs - [phone]
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Wanted: Real Heart Model
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 14:51:53 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>

A co-worker of mine wants to make illustrations of a heart using his
A2000 and Imagine for his wife's presentations.  She is a nurse.
So he is looking for a fairly accurate 3-D model of a real human heart,
not the romaticized shape.

He would like the inside chambers modeled as well, but just an outside
surface model would be okay.  Of course, the heart is not a rigid,
easily modeled object.  It would probably best be the heart in its
resting state.

Does anyone know where such a model may be acquired?
Or who to ask to find out?

Thank you.

         __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]    McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"


##

Subject: Fogs
Date:     Thu, 22 Apr 1993 17:17:29 -0400
From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>

I've been playing with some fog objects recently and have come across an
annoying problem.  It seems that when the two fogs overlap, they cancel
each other out.  Any suggestions?

Jason K.
        __                  __       __
       /     /  __ _     __ / o_    /     __ _ __ __  o       _
      /   \//\ /_////| //_// //    /- \/ /_////_///  //\ /| //
     /  __/ \/ \ / / |/ \ /\/ \   /__ /\/  /  \  \\\/ \// |/ \
     \___________________________________________//__________/


##

Subject: Re: Imagine project ????
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 13:27:32 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Rev Lebaredian)

>
>     I read something about a big Imagine Project showing a scene
>     Joe's Diner with many objects created by maillist members.
>     Well I want to do an object. But don't know which one
>     are free. So please inform me of the objects left to be done
>     (something not too complicated would be fine :-) )

  Well, it seems like I might have a bit of time on my hands.  If
the persone who originally posted the project would post some info
on what's left I would be willing to pick an object or two.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                    "My moral standing is lying down."
                                                    [e-mail]


##

Subject: Cheap Motion Blur?
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 16:53:56 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

I was pondering a "cheap" way to get motion blur in some instances. I
came up with this:

Airplane, helicopter rotor:

    a. Make a disk.
    b. Add a transparency map that has some blurred rotors and
       is transparent between the rotors.
    c. Rotate the disk slowly to mimic the aliasing of a camera.

What do you think? I did run through past mailings and didn't see
mention of this idea.

    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: Re: Re: Pixel 3d/aga
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 00:10:06 PDT
From: [e-mail] (R. L. Zarling)

>From [e-mail] Wed Apr 21 17:15:42 1993
>
>I know this is off the subject but I think it would help a lot of the
>Imagine users and AMiga users alike to know this. I was playing around
>tonight on my copy of the Public Domain SHELL utility C-Shell 5.19.
>I stumbled on something that I think is pretty revolutionary.
>Some of you may already know this but others may not.
>CSHell 5.19 supports Object oriented file handling. What this
>means is that you can program aliases to work on any file by
>having cshell make a class out of it. I was amazed becuase this
>is a lot how you arrange things when you write programs in C++.

(example deleted)

Steve Koren's public domain shell SKsh also supports this via
a utility program named "view".  The program is actually just a
general purpose program-launcher, so could be renamed (or aliased
or linked) to something else.  It is driven by a configuration file
with default name view.magic (or more generally xxx.magic, if the
executable is named xxx).  This configuration file seems to be
very similar to the classes you gave in your example.

The best part is that this is just an ordinary Amiga program, so
it runs just fine under the Amiga Shell or (I presume) any other
shell.  One could use it even if they decided not to use the rest
of SKsh.  For that matter, there are dozens of utilities that come
with SKsh that fall into that category.

--Ray Zarling
  [e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Editing times
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 16:11:52 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> How much does a editing deck usually sell for, I mean street price or
> used?? I would like to know how hard it is to write a program just
> to tell a editing deck when to record a frame and such.

If you have a 4000, perhaps the most cost effective solution is to get the
NEW Toaster which adds realtime playback of 24 bit animation. No expensive
single frame deck necessary.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: IMAGINE PC SCOOP
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 22:12:49 -0500
From: "Tony R. Boutwell" <[e-mail]>

Hi... ok after working on Imagine pc for about 4-5 days now...I can now
give you all some details about it...

1) The first version they sent out could not (on my computer):

            A) Show anything that was rendered in project or quickrender
               (I have a Diamond Speedstar 24X card) <--- they are working
               on the problem and should have a fix soon...

            B) Could not run with qemm memory manager... (but) they
               gave great tech support on the phone on how to get it to
               run with the dos memory manager emm386

            C) would not load dxf files or write out flc animations


2) The 2nd version:

            A) havent yet fixed the viewing problem yet... but does say
               that it works fine with the Diamond Stealth card....
               (guess I will try and swap mine for one of those)
               --> although they are working on the 24X's

            B) Runs fine with my Qemm memory manager now.... you just
               (on my machine) have to type "imagine /noxms" <--- reason
               being some kind of memory conflict.... but it does work.

            C) You can now load DXF files (I think) <--- It trys... but on
               my system it runs out of memory??? I have 8 megs...?? could
               be a problem associated with the /noxms ?? not sure...?

            D) also there still seems to be a problem with loading TIFF
               and TARGA files....both I have tried (from several diff.
               progs) and still doesnt work... only time it did...it
               said out of memory??

            E) The flc animation part works great now... as soon As I get
               offline I am goig to be starting an anim... :)

 THINGS DIFFERENT FROM THE AMIGA VERSION:

1)NO Multitasking.... (no suprise)

2)SUCKS having to name thinks in 8-letters or less... (ibm fault) not Imagine

3)Not capable of showing BIG pencil test...(in the make looping anim) inside
  of the stage editor where you do the sample anim (in wireframe)...

4)cant load a font and make it an obj....(ms-dos has no fonts...to speak of)



***** All in all most of the limitations seem to be because of ms-dos and
***** not because of Impulse and Imagine.... Although I only mention
***** what is wrong with (Imagine PC) it is still 95% functional and
***** seems (besides what I mention above) to work flawlessly....

***********************************************************************
************** I also want to commend Impulse for *********************
************** their exceptional tech support!!!! *********************
**************                                    *********************
************** The guys working their seem to     *********************
************** really be on the ball....they get  *********************
************** the answers for you...and if they  *********************
************** couldnt...they found someone who   *********************
************** could!  Hats off to the Impulse    *********************
************** tech team... especially Mark.      *********************
***********************************************************************

now.... all I need is the DREAM MACHINE....


Tony Boutwell
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Imagine PC query
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 12:16:31 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>
>What are the system limitations of Imagine PC?  Can it run under windows?
>How about the speed?
>
>Jason K.
>

    Okay here is some info.....

    Will NOT run under Windows.  I haven't tried it but they said it
won't even run as a DOS icon in a windows group.  Something about the
way it works with memory.

    My 486DX 33 seems a bit faster than my A3000-25.

    Shipped versions may not work in Dos 6, but this has been fixed
on new disks i guess.

    I was wrong before, it saves if Imagine, TIFF _AND_ Targa
formats.

    Requires a VESA driver to view in hires 256 colors: ie:640x480.
but will viewing 320x200 fine otherwise.

    Hope this helps.



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: Single Frame VCRs again
Date:     Wed, 21 Apr 1993 23:29:24 +0200
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

I am sure that there are a couple of guys out there that own
or use single frame facilities. What I want to know is
how much they payed for them and WHAT IS MORE how much they spent
on repair costs. This point is rather important as I was told
that single-frame recording is a very hard job to do for the recording
going back and forth to refind the exact postion to continue and
so on.
So please drop a note, as I think this important to many of us
graphic freaks !

Thanks Hannes


##

Subject: Monkey Byte/Future Animation???????
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 14:13:20 PDT
From: [e-mail]

In January 1992 an flier in Louis Markoya's Turbo SIG
newsletter called for 3D objects to be sent to Future
Animation, Atlantic Records, 13906 241st place South East
Issaquah WA  98027; tel. [phone].  The call for
objects was signed "John".  The 3D objects were to be used in
a 45 minute movie set in "virtual reality".

They called me about a year ago to say that one of my objects
was to be in the film and that I'd receive a free copy of the
film when it was completed.  I called every 3 or 4 months and
the deadline got pushed back and pushed back.  The name of
the company changed to "Monkey Byte Animation" during the
period.  Recently the telephone number has been disconnected.

Does anyone know what happened to these folks?  Did they go
belly up?  Was it a scam?  Please e-mail
[e-mail].


##

Subject: Playmation Wanted
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 17:30:25 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

Any of you guys using Imagine have an old copy of Playmation laying
around for the PC platform?  If so, please let me know, I'd like to buy
it from you.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: Re: Animated Brush maps
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 18:42:45 EST
From: Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>

>
>
> A quick question on how to use animated brushmaps on an
> object.  I have 4 images that need to be sequenced between 8
> frames.  At this time it maps them in this format:
>
>    Frame   1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8
>    Image   1    1    2    2    3    3    4    4
>
> What i would like it to do is two sequences of the image map.
> Like:
>
>    Frame   1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8
>    Image   1    2    3    4    1    2    3    4
>
>
> Is there an easy way to do this? This is just a test run on
> a big anim.  So breaking them up manually is not the answer.
> Is there a setting in the action/cycler editor I'm not aware
> of?

HAve your object exist in frames 1-4 with the brush map settings
as you have them. then add the same object (in the action editor)
with identical settings from 5-8, 9-12 etc... remember not to add a new
actor at 5-8- just a new bar in the existing actors line.

Global maps and backdrops work the same way as well.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
                    | why would he be such a jerk? i know that he doesn't smoke
steve lombardi      | drugs. and he doesn't do cocaine. and he doesn't shoot
[e-mail] | smack. and he doesn't even drink beer. Why would he be
                    | such a fu*ker to me? --WEEN


##

Subject: Re: Editing times
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 09:51:44 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Allan J. Patrick)

> If you have a 4000, perhaps the most cost effective solution is to get the
> NEW Toaster which adds realtime playback of 24 bit animation. No expensive
> single frame deck necessary.


Hmmm... I'm a little confused.  I was excited when you announced 24 bit real-time playback at the Amiga User Group meeting, but I've since heard that this is actually the 262000+ color mode of the A4000.  Can you confirm one or the other?  By the way Mark, I enjoyed the demo of the new LW3 you provided at the meeting.  Many Thanks.


##

Subject: Re: Wanted: Real Heart Model
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 10:46:33 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>A co-worker of mine wants to make illustrations of a heart using his
>A2000 and Imagine for his wife's presentations.  She is a nurse.
>So he is looking for a fairly accurate 3-D model of a real human heart,
>not the romaticized shape.
>
>
>Does anyone know where such a model may be acquired?
>Or who to ask to find out?
>
>Thank you.
>

    Yes, well ViewPoint....that company that has all those 3D
Digitized objects in tons of formats has  some hearts.  It has a full 3D
heart, plus I think it has a half cut 3D one.  I forget the phone #.
(it's at home).  I'm not sure how much they cost, but i recall the
medical  objects are  more than most others.  I could check later if you
want.

--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+


##

Subject: Need DXF to 3D studio conversion
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 10:54:30 -0400
From: Ralph Seguin <[e-mail]>

Hi.  I need to be able to convert DXF files into 3D Studio files.
Anybody know of a means of doing this?

            Thanks, Ralph


##

Subject: Re: Wanted: Real Heart Model
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 14:00:46 -0400
From: Ralph Seguin <[e-mail]>

> >A co-worker of mine wants to make illustrations of a heart using his
> >A2000 and Imagine for his wife's presentations.  She is a nurse.
> >So he is looking for a fairly accurate 3-D model of a real human heart,
> >not the romaticized shape.

> >Does anyone know where such a model may be acquired?
> >Or who to ask to find out?

>     Yes, well ViewPoint....that company that has all those 3D
> Digitized objects in tons of formats has  some hearts.  It has a full 3D
> heart, plus I think it has a half cut 3D one.  I forget the phone #.
> (it's at home).  I'm not sure how much they cost, but i recall the
> medical  objects are  more than most others.  I could check later if you
> want.

On one of the fish disks, there is a program called Heart3D.  This
program has a 3D wireframe representation of the heart WHILE beating
(ie, it has CAT scans converted).  You might check out this program
and see if they have additional progress/information to give.

-Ralph


##

Subject: Re: Editing times
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 13:06:51 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    > used?? I would like to know how hard it is to write a program just
    > to tell a editing deck when to record a frame and such.

    If you have a 4000, perhaps the most cost effective solution is to get
    the NEW Toaster which adds realtime playback of 24 bit animation. No
    expensive single frame deck necessary.
---------------------
No way... Come on... A hard drive can't retrieve 24-bit 700K images
fast enough to do real-time playback, unless, ofcourse,
they now use MPEG or some form of it. A video recorder with frame
accurate recording is the best solution, I think.